«Women's Territory» is a nationwide organisation that has united women worldwide. Over nearly 11 years of existence, they have implemented dozens of projects, including cultural ones. The head of the organisation, Liliia Shevchenko, believes that a person who knows their roots automatically understands who they are and what they must do to preserve their country. The full-scale war has altered the organisation's operations. They have already delivered over five hundred tonnes of humanitarian aid to military personnel and civilians. They support families of prisoners of war and help women who have experienced violence. Moreover, they are expanding their presence in Europe.

Nataliia Zhukovska: Ms Liliia, you are the head of the «Women's Territory» organisation. What is this territory like?

Liliia Shevchenko: Our nationwide public organisation «Women's Territory» was founded by ideologically driven women who live and breathe Ukraine. This is not an empty phrase but the pure truth. «Women's Territory» is neither defined nor limited by borders. It is not only the territory of those residing in Ukraine but also the territory of women worldwide, especially now, when millions of Ukrainian women, fleeing war, have found temporary refuge in many European countries. We want to help them systematically. So, we decided that «Women's Territory» would now operate under the umbrella of the host country and its laws. Currently, work on the documents for «Women's Territory» in Poland is nearing completion. We have held talks with representatives from the Polish Ministry of Social Policy and with relocated Ukrainian businesses and Polish businesses. How will they help Ukrainian women in Poland? Primarily by organising Sunday schools. This is important so that children while learning about the culture of their host country, do not forget their Ukrainian heritage. Given that Ukraine is in a full-scale war and most funds from businesses and ministries are allocated to military needs, there is insufficient funding from the Ministry of Education for books and educational materials for children abroad. One of the tasks of «Women's Territory» is not only to establish Sunday schools but also to print books. We have already held talks with the «Gutenberg» publishing house. We will distribute books for free, starting with our Sunday schools.

We already have a developed base, so organising work in Poland will not be difficult. One of our members opened the first art school in Warsaw at the end of 2022 and has already received small grants from the local Polish authorities. The school offers free art classes to both Ukrainian and Polish children.

One of the messages of «Women's Territory» is that we not only take from the countries that shelter us but also give to them

We have provided Europe with qualified specialists. Due to the war in Ukraine, many educators, medical professionals and managers moved to the EU. Many of them have already had their diplomas recognised. For instance, our member, who led «Women's Territory» in Dnipro, now lives in Gdansk, has confirmed her qualifications, and is a qualified lawyer. Her mother also verified her diploma and works as a dentist. So, we offer our knowledge and services to the Polish people as well. We want the Poles to understand that they do not only give but also receive. This will also be one of the tasks of «Women's Territory» in Poland.

We will also focus on women's leadership and gender issues. A woman must understand her status and significance in society.

How has the organisation's work changed since the start of the full-scale war?

«Women's Territory» shifted 90 per cent towards volunteer activities. In Poland, for example, we partnered with several Polish foundations that had a 400-square-metre volunteer warehouse in Warsaw. We are grateful to the Poles for covering its rental costs for an extended period. It was packed to the ceiling with humanitarian aid, ranging from clothing and food to expensive medical supplies, which we distributed to Ukrainian hospitals. For example, we had diffuser devices, each costing around 2500 euros, with over a thousand in stock. We equipped hospitals with beds, X-ray machines, and vitamins. Both Ukrainians and Poles worked at the warehouse. We dispatched trucks loaded with aid based on recipients' requests and provided support to relocated family-type children's homes and care facilities for the elderly. We received tourniquets and body armour and raised funds for drones. We did not merely adapt to new challenges - we also helped others adapt to them.

Who are the members of your organisation?

There are around two thousand of us. There are women, heads of departments, who have their own public organisations and foundations. For example, our member is Iryna Mikhniuk - a widow, the wife of a fallen Hero of Ukraine. Since 2014, she has headed the organisation «Wings of the Eighth Hundred» - it consists of widows, wives of the fallen, and children. In Ukraine, there are already 19 officially registered branches of ours. The team includes women from various professions and financial backgrounds, but with a shared ideological mindset and vision. There are also military personnel, such as Viktoria Khrystenko, who was the first adviser to the Admiral of the Ukrainian Navy.

In my team, there is a board member of «Women's Territory» from Donetsk, Alina Khaletska, who was forced to flee her native city. Her family had a unique background. Her husband worked for the Donetsk administration, and she herself is a lecturer, professor and academician. They left everything behind when they fled. Upon arriving in Irpin, they worked hard to save money and eventually started purchasing a flat. Sadly, during the full-scale war, it was destroyed by an enemy shell. They endured the occupation in Irpin. In other words, they have lived through occupation twice in their lifetime. This woman was offered work abroad. Where do you think she is? In Irpin. She does not wish to leave Ukraine.

What problems do women approach you with?

Many women joined us when we became part of the coalition «Women, Peace, Security». These are activists fighting for women's leadership and supporting victims of violence. In Ukraine, this remains a major issue, especially in places like Bucha and Irpin. You are likely familiar with some of these stories. There is much I know but cannot share publicly. Our agreement is to not speak of experiences unless we were participants. I am a witness. These are stories lived by women, girls, or children. They share their stories themselves if they wish to. All stories are heavy. How do we support them? I always advocate for mutual assistance and supporting one another. It is crucial to speak with them very carefully, as every word can be traumatising.

We help them regain their footing, providing a sense of sisterhood and the reassurance that they are not alone - that we stand together

We stress that anyone could find themselves in a similar situation. Our message is one of solidarity. Sometimes, we involve these women in processes by seeking their help to show them they are needed. Engagement, even minimal, can serve as a distraction and relief. We have no formal programme for this, our approach has been refined over many years.

Additionally, through a memorandum of cooperation with municipal employment centres, we assist women in retraining and finding jobs. We collaborate closely with the Ministry of Veterans. Many of the women in «Women's Territory» are defenders who were once civilians. We were the first to help sew military uniforms and undergarments for women. We also sourced anatomical body armour specifically designed for them.

What has the organisation accomplished during its existence?

Our lives are now divided into «before» and «after» the full-scale war. Prior to it, we had a powerful project that united Ukrainian children living abroad. We also established the International Festival of Cultural and Creative Industries, known as «Women's Territory», which we later renamed «Masters' Territory». If not for the full-scale war, this festival would have received funding from the Ministry of Culture and Information Policy. It was a platform that elevated Ukrainian crafts, demonstrating that Ukrainian products are not merely sold at fairs and markets, but even in five-star hotels. For now, this project has been put on hold. Today, we focus on uniting Ukrainian women abroad.

We strive to ensure that Ukraine is not forgotten. Our initial focus is on registering «Women's Territory» in Poland and France. Next, we plan for Belgium, Switzerland, Germany and Spain

We have provided female defenders with over 1200 boxes containing first-aid kits, vitamins, special olive-based creams to prevent skin cracking and even perfumes.

Every woman should feel like a woman, no matter where she is. We even provided hair dye tailored to their colour types. Once, I asked the women to take photos for a media campaign to raise funds for these boxes. They sent back pictures - clean, with hairstyles and manicures. It turned out they had travelled to a district centre and, using their own money, found skilled manicure artists and hairdressers. They told me, «Lilia, when we opened these boxes, we felt like we were at home». You see, they received a psychological breath of happiness.

Your organisation has helped women with children evacuate from dangerous areas to avoid occupation. How did this happen, and how many people have you assisted?

We do not have exact numbers on how many people we have helped. We evacuated people from Melitopol, Berdyansk, Kherson, Donetsk region, and the left, already occupied, bank of the Zaporizhzhia region. Of course, we were assisted by the military. I am unsure if I am allowed to disclose the details of every rescue story. I will share one - the story of a mother with two children who were leaving Melitopol. At that time, her daughter was 15, and her son was three years old. Their father was in the Armed Forces of Ukraine. If the Russians had found this out, they would have been executed. She instructed her children to remain silent and, if necessary, to respond only in Russian. On their way, Russian soldiers armed with weapons boarded the bus to conduct checks. Approaching them, the muzzle of a rifle hanging on one soldier's shoulder accidentally pressed against the child's head. The boy was so terrified that he wets himself to this day. They were interrogated, their phone SIM cards were examined, and the family endured multiple rounds of hell. It later turned out they were fortunate that the child was not undressed. Only later did the mother notice a hidden sheet of A4 paper on her son's chest. On it was a drawing of his father in military uniform, with a flag and the words «Glory to Ukraine!». The boy had placed that drawing there himself. To him, it represented Ukraine, his life. If the Russians had seen that drawing, they would have been executed. We have many such stories.

Do you keep in touch with the families you have assisted?

Someday, I will revisit those lists. But for now, our priority is to officially establish «Women's Territory» in Europe and America. We are resilient, genuine, and active. We are women accustomed to giving, not taking. Perhaps in time, I will become more interested in the fates of those we have helped. However, I often question whether reaching out would be beneficial or if it might unintentionally bring harm.

You travel abroad frequently. What do you talk about there, how do foreigners react, and what interests them most?

I talk about the solidarity and resilience of the Ukrainian people. I share the harsh realities of war we face, the immense challenges, and our efforts to overcome them. My message is always framed to emphasise the need for support in these efforts. I say, «We are taking action, not standing by. Help us in this war in any way you can - through expertise, humanitarian aid, or military support». We consistently highlight the need to support the Ukrainian army, and I know our message is being heard.

«Women's Territory» supports prisoners of war and continuously participates in various campaigns. Do you believe these efforts contribute to exchanges?

Absolutely. We have been supporting the families of prisoners of war since the start of the war in 2014. We organise events with the mothers, wives, and children of captured marines. Do you remember those taken prisoner in Crimea at the beginning of the war? We brought the mother and daughter of one of the marines to the UN so that their speech could raise awareness and tell the truth about the war in Ukraine. Any information campaign must be planned and ongoing. Such initiatives not only ensure that the world does not forget those in captivity but also help the relatives of prisoners of war feel they are not alone, preventing them from being lost in their grief. Tragedy unites. We have many poignant stories related to the return of prisoners of war. Recently, there was a soldier on the list who had been eagerly awaited by everyone. They thought he had come back. However, it turned out it was not him. The surname was the same, but the first name was different.

You also conduct training sessions for government institutions on communication with veterans and their families. What are the key principles you focus on?

I will illustrate with the example of the Kyiv City Employment Centre. Engaging with a military veteran, a defender or a servicewoman, requires a particular approach. For instance, we - as empaths - often feel the urge to approach a soldier on the street and say, «Thank you for your service. Glory to Ukraine». We might want to hug them and say, «You are a hero!». Yet, almost none of this should be said or done. These are triggers. If you call them heroes, they often do not perceive themselves that way. This is why we educate not only employees of state institutions but also the civilian population. The most important thing is teaching how to understand and engage with these individuals. For example, when they come to the Kyiv City Employment Centre, the manager who interacts with them must be highly qualified and aware that every soldier might experience flashbacks. We train them to pay attention to facial expressions, eyes, and behaviour. Employees of such institutions must be prepared for any possible scenario because almost all soldiers have experienced concussions. Furthermore, there must be barrier-free access and inclusivity.

Veterans must be actively involved in rebuilding Ukraine after the war, not left idle at home

Sociologists warn of a crisis facing the country after the war, particularly a demographic one. Do you think Ukrainian women will return from Europe after the victory? What steps are needed to ensure this?

I am unsure if I can speak openly about this, but yes, we are facing a demographic crisis. A baby boom will not be enough to solve this. We are exploring solutions because it concerns our future. Will women return from abroad? The longer the full-scale war continues, the less likely it becomes. Many divorces are happening now. Numerous women have adapted to their children's needs, and most of these children are assimilating into the societies where they now live. We have already encountered such cases among my members. They lived abroad. The daughter wanted to return, but the son did not. He had adapted, made friends, and was better accepted in his class than he had been at home. He likes the new country.

We must understand that parents' decisions will be influenced by their children. Therefore, we need to prioritise working with children abroad

Moreover, many women abroad have managed to realise themselves better or earn more than they did at home. For example, she was a nurse in a hospital in western Ukraine, and now she works as a nurse in Wroclaw. In Poland, she earns significantly more. Our officials must listen to society and start developing a programme to bring Ukrainian women home today. «Women's Territory» will undoubtedly contribute to this effort, primarily with its experience and resources. After all, we live in this country - to defend, revive, and provide it with a future. Fortunately, the majority of «Women's Territory» members abroad understand this.

Traumatised by uncertainty

Olga Pakosh: How traumatised is contemporary Ukrainian society? How would you characterise it?

Michał Bilewicz: We cannot say that the entire society suffers from PTSD. If that were the case, people would likely struggle to function normally. Let me remind you that PTSD symptoms include persistent flashbacks, intrusive thoughts about war and the inability to concentrate on anything else. Meanwhile, we see that the Ukrainian state is functioning - the economy is operating, and daily life goes on.

Ukraine increasingly resembles Israel - a society living under constant threat.

Israeli psychologist Daniel Bar-Tal described this phenomenon as an «intractable conflict», where society adapts to continuous conflict, accepting it as a natural state of affairs. He also wrote about the «ethos of conflict», referring to how societies grow accustomed to living in a state of war.

What does this look like in Israel? When I visited, I was always struck by the fact that every flat has a safe room that doubles as a bomb shelter. Residents go to this room whenever an alarm sounds. After all, the advanced Iron Dome missile defence system is not entirely foolproof - missiles occasionally hit homes.

It seems that Israeli society has adapted to living with war. On the one hand, it functions normally, but on the other, conflict is a constant presence. We are not only talking about the war in Gaza but about a phenomenon that, with some interruptions, has persisted throughout modern Israeli history. As Bar-Tal points out, this situation erodes social trust and influences attitudes towards international politics - people are reluctant to seek alliances and agreements with other nations, feeling that the world is hostile and untrustworthy.

For Ukraine, the key objective is to join European structures - the European Union and NATO - as quickly as possible. This could ensure Ukraine’s future security and stable economic functioning. However, for this to work, it is essential to avoid slipping into the mentality typical of societies accustomed to war.

Since 2014, Ukraine has been in a constant state of war, with varying levels of intensity, and this is extremely dangerous. Therefore, I would describe Ukrainian society as one that is, to some extent, adapting to life in wartime conditions.

- The war in Ukraine has opened up vast areas for research in social and clinical psychology. No doubt you have been following these studies. Have you encountered anything surprising? Have you conducted joint studies with Ukrainian institutions?

- We have conducted two studies. Together with Anna Hromova, a PhD candidate from the Institute of Social and Political Psychology at the National Academy of Pedagogical Sciences of Ukraine, we examined almost five thousand Ukrainian refugees living in Poland to study the prevalence of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) and the degree of trauma. We also looked into how living conditions in Poland affect the development of PTSD symptoms and reflected on whether post-migration experiences might intensify trauma, and if so, in what ways.

As you may recall from the book, I was surprised by the findings of previous research, which showed that PTSD rates in Poland ranged from 20 to 30 per cent. For example, in studies conducted in Silesia after the floods, 30 per cent of the population exhibited PTSD symptoms. Even among students who visited the Auschwitz museum, 15 per cent were diagnosed with PTSD. These numbers have always been exceptionally high.

In our study of Ukrainian refugee women in Poland, we found a PTSD rate of 47 per cent. I must say, I have never seen such a result in my life. This is indeed a very high level of trauma

It is a consequence not only of the traumatic wartime experiences but also of the conditions in which the refugees find themselves after migrating.

- Could you explain why the level of trauma is so high?

- Typically, PTSD studies are conducted after a conflict ends, when peace returns. In our study, we dealt with an ongoing war, where the women surveyed continue to live in a state of uncertainty. Their husbands are often on the front lines or at risk of being called up, which adds to the stress.

The vast majority of these women face acculturation challenges (the process of mutual cultural influence, where one culture adopts aspects of another - Edit.) in the new society. Acculturation-related stress, including experiences or fears of discrimination in Poland, leads to more intense PTSD symptoms. It is harder for people to move past war trauma when they encounter discrimination in the country they have moved to. Therefore, it is crucial that Poland creates the most supportive environment possible for Ukrainian refugees, as this directly impacts their mental health and their ability to function well in Poland.

Of course, the intensity of PTSD symptoms also depends on individual characteristics. We noticed that people who struggle with uncertainty managed the worst. We remember how things were in the spring of 2022 - full of uncertainty and chaos. People with low tolerance for uncertainty were more prone to PTSD, whereas those who coped better with such situations were less likely to experience symptoms.

«During war trust in the government is essential»

- You mentioned two studies. What was the focus of the second one?

- The second study, which we conducted in collaboration with Ukrainians, was focused on Ukraine itself and examined how complex PTSD experiences influence various forms of distrust and conspiracy theories. I have been interested for some time in how these traumas can shape such attitudes. I observe this phenomenon in Poland as well:

Historical traumas cause people, even generations later, to continue viewing their surroundings as unreliable and to seek out conspiracy theories

It seems that something similar is happening in Ukraine. When I speak with Ukrainians, I often hear conspiracy theories about President Zelensky - for instance, that there are Russian agents among his close associates. This reflects a certain level of fundamental distrust towards politicians, which, in wartime, is very dangerous. The greater the social cohesion and trust in the authorities, the better it is for the country. Even if the authorities do not always act perfectly - and with issues like corruption in our part of Europe, we know this is sometimes the case - in a war situation, trust in the government is essential.

A similar issue relates to trust in science. We studied this in Ukraine, focusing on how much people trust health and medical services, particularly regarding vaccination. We found that people with stronger PTSD symptoms tend to have less trust in science. We are not yet certain in which direction this correlation moves - this is preliminary research - but we are interested in whether war experiences and trauma impact overall distrust or if people simply lose trust in various areas of life. This is a quite dangerous phenomenon, and it often arises in wartime conditions.

- How can this trust be restored? What could help Ukrainians to endure and maintain mental stability until victory?

- Certainly, restoring a sense of agency in daily life - the awareness that what one does has meaning, that one can plan something and carry it out. 

The more people feel capable, the better they will function. This is why combating corruption is so essential, as it robs people of the feeling that they have any control over their lives. They know that everything is decided for them, and they have no influence. Effective anti-corruption measures can significantly improve the mental health of society.

- Unfortunately, war poses a massive threat to that sense of agency, doesn’t it?

- War complicates this greatly, which is why it is important for people to be able to say, «Even if war hinders certain plans, at least in other areas of life, nothing can stand in my way». It is crucial to help people regain this sense, as war fundamentally destroys it, stripping away their feeling of control. It is vital that people can maintain control and agency in their daily lives.

«Poland has no right to write Ukraine’s history»

- How do you think Poles' attitudes towards Ukrainians have changed since the start of the war? How do Poles perceive Ukrainians now?

- In my book, I try to counter a fatalistic outlook, as Poles tend to complain about themselves. I think Ukrainians do the same. We do not criticise ourselves when speaking with Germans or French people, but among ourselves, we often criticise one another.

Poles tend to think of themselves as biased, inhospitable, full of stereotypes. However, what we saw in the spring of 2022 was entirely different - a huge societal mobilisation to help Ukraine. People were sending money to buy weapons, purchasing food, and bringing people from the border. One in every twenty Poles welcomed Ukrainians into their homes. These were unprecedented actions.

I do not know of any other European society that has carried out such a large-scale relief effort, organised not by the government but by ordinary citizens

Of course, this was also supported by the strong networks among Ukrainians already living in Poland. It is important to remember that there were already a million Ukrainians residing in Poland at the time, who supported their relatives and friends. This was one of the key elements that made this large-scale aid possible.

At the same time, our research indicated not only significant sympathy but also strong support for aiding Ukraine, particularly in the acceptance of refugees. This was interesting, as Poles are generally not particularly supportive of refugees. Ukrainian citizens benefitted from the fact that Poles already had experience interacting with them. When we ask Poles whether they personally know any Arabs, 80 to 90 per cent respond that they have never encountered any in their lives. A similar situation applies to Romani people, with around 80 per cent of Poles reporting they have never had contact with them. When asked about Jews, 90 per cent of Poles claim they do not personally know any. However, the responses to questions about Ukrainians yield different results: even before the war, around half of Poles personally knew some Ukrainians.

A large number of Ukrainians, particularly from Western Ukraine, have been coming to Poland for years to work. Following 2014, Ukrainians from eastern regions, including Russian-speaking individuals, also began arriving in Poland. Poles became acquainted with them and observed that they were very similar to themselves. These relationships were not superficial - they were not just with Ukrainian workers in shops, but also with colleagues, and with parents of children attending the same schools as Polish children. This prepared Poles for 2022, as these refugees were no longer strangers - they were people whom Poles knew and had relationships with.

I believe that if the situation were reversed, and war broke out in Poland, Ukrainians would similarly take in Poles. Polish-Ukrainian relations are strong and mutually supportive.

It should also be noted that, before the war, there was considerable hatred directed at Ukrainians on the internet, particularly concerning the Volyn tragedy and war crimes. However, following 2022, this topic has almost vanished. Unfortunately, it is now gradually resurfacing, although these past two years have allowed us to step back from this issue.

In terms of Poles’ attitudes towards Ukrainians, enthusiasm for assistance has somewhat declined, yet the majority of Poles still believe that Ukrainian refugees should be supported and that Poland must continue backing Ukraine in the ongoing conflict. Well over half of Poles hold this view, so it cannot be said that Polish society has turned away from Ukraine and its people. We are still a long way from that.

- This is good news. However, the subject of Volyn has resurfaced, this time through the voice of the Prime Minister. Donald Tusk stated that until all details surrounding the Volyn tragedy are clarified and exhumations conducted, Poland will not support Ukraine’s path to the European Union...

- I believe this was a reaction to certain events. After Dmytro Kuleba ceased to be minister, the issue somewhat subsided. It was indeed an unfortunate comment. On one hand, I believe that Minister Kuleba spoke the truth, but as a diplomat, he ought not to have said it at that moment and in response to such a question. However, the time will come when Poles will need to raise the issue of Operation «Vistula» and earnestly confront it.

Of course, it can be argued that the actions were those of the communists, not the Polish people, that it was the communist government of a state that no longer exists. However, it is essential to remember the complex interwar politics of Poland, which discriminated against Ukrainians. I know this well, as I myself come from Ukraine. My grandmother was from Kolomyia, and my grandfather from Ivano-Frankivsk, so I am aware of what happened there before the war and of Poland’s discriminatory policies towards Ukrainians.

- How can the issue of the Volyn tragedy be resolved on both historical and political levels so that it is no longer a burden on Polish-Ukrainian relations? You summarised it well in your book: «to talk about history, but not live in it».

- Vadym Vasyutynsky of the Institute of Social and Political Psychology at the National Academy of Pedagogical Sciences of Ukraine conducted an interesting study, which he began before the full-scale war and continued afterwards. As far as I recall, he asked Ukrainians, in a large sample, whether Ukrainians caused more harm or good to Poles throughout their shared history.

After 2022, the number of people acknowledging that there were also negative events, including crimes, in these relations increased. This indicates that Ukrainians are becoming more open to discussing challenging moments in their shared history with Poles.

I pondered over why this might be. Perhaps, after 2022, Ukrainians realised just how important good relations with Poland and the West are? Politically, we see that, for example, former President Viktor Yushchenko referred to the traditions of the UPA, even highlighting some of the more controversial aspects of history, including the forces that collaborated with the Germans during the war. In contrast, Volodymyr Zelensky tends to avoid this. It seems to me that there has been a noticeable shift from Yushchenko to Zelensky in terms of which aspects of history are suitable and necessary to highlight, such as the Carpathian Sich…

- Am I correct in understanding that you suggest celebrating other stages of Ukrainian history, rather than those that may be painful for Poland?

- Exactly. When considering our history, one can always choose different elements to promote and to build one’s identity upon. Some elements damage our relations - both Polish and Ukrainian ones. If Poles were to build their identity on the history of Jeremi Wiśniowiecki, who killed Cossacks, it would not be beneficial for relations with Ukraine, would it?

I believe there are excellent periods in our history worth highlighting. For instance, Ivan Franko, or figures like Petliura, who, despite mixed views among Ukrainians, is well-regarded by Poles.

Of course, Poland does not have the right to write Ukraine’s history. Please do not ask me about this, as it is a question for Ukrainians. Likewise, Ukrainians do not have the right to write Poland’s history.

However, I can express my dissatisfaction when Poles avoid taking a clear stance on Operation «Vistula» and fail to say: «Yes, a terrible wrong was committed, with masses of people forcibly relocated, deprived of land on which they had lived for generations.» It was wrong, just like the pacification of Ukrainian villages before the war, the destruction of the «Maslosoyuz» cooperative and Ukrainian cooperatives, and the imprisonment and torture of Ukrainian politicians by the authorities of the Second Polish Republic. Poland needs to acknowledge this, to learn to speak about it, and to engage in dialogue with Ukrainians.

As for Ukraine, this is a matter for Ukrainian historians - how they propose to present their history. My ideal scenario would be what Poland eventually achieved with Germany after many years: the creation of a joint commission to prepare textbooks.

Historians and educators, both Polish and Ukrainian, could collaborate on a joint textbook to teach Polish-Ukrainian history. This would be incredibly valuable, even if the textbook did not become the primary one used in all schools

It is essential to create spaces where we can collectively discuss how to present this history. It is not about idealising everything but rather about speaking openly, even about the difficult moments. However, it is also important to remember that the situation was asymmetrical: Poland was a coloniser, while Ukraine was a colonised country. This is not a matter of equal responsibility on both sides.

Understanding this context allows for a deeper comprehension of how the events in Volyn occurred. It is also necessary to conduct exhumations and to openly acknowledge that what happened was horrific and should never have taken place.

- It appears there is much work ahead to achieve understanding between Poles and Ukrainians, but with Russians… Is there even a possibility of ever reaching an understanding with them? How do you view this from the perspective of social psychology? Will we ever be able to forgive?

- When we attempt to reconcile nations that have experienced brutal wars, we typically start with moral exemplars. We try to show that even in dark times, people can act morally. For instance, we tell the story of a Russian schoolgirl who had the courage to protest against the war. We are not speaking about an adult, but a young person who not only faces persecution herself but whose entire family suffers as a result of her protest. Such individual acts of defiance demonstrate that even within Russia, one can find people with moral convictions.

This is reminiscent of the situation with Germany after the Second World War. Reconciliation with Germany was made possible because we recognised that, despite much of society supporting Hitler, there were Germans who were persecuted and imprisoned in concentration camps, such as Buchenwald. These were Germans who wished to appeal to a different history. I believe similar individuals can be found in Russia. However, the problem is that, at present, Russia is a country where, on the one hand, the war enjoys substantial support, and on the other, no opinion polls or surveys can be trusted, as people are intimidated.

It resembles living in a state run by a gang

- How much time will need to pass before this topic can be approached?

- Let’s discuss this once the war is over. I think, at this moment, no one in Ukraine wants to hear about it or hear the Russian language - this is entirely understandable, and Ukrainians have an absolute right to feel this way. It depends on the situation and on what Russia looks like post-war. The key will be whether Russians can rebuild their state on a different foundation and set of principles.

The first day of school for Ukrainian schoolchildren — September 2 — began to the accompaniment of Russian rockets. Instead of sweet sleep in their beds, the children were forced to flee to the bomb shelters, where they tried to get at least a little more sleep. But the enemy did not stop the attack, firing more than a dozen cruise missiles and about a dozen ballistic missiles at Kyiv alone. And in two days, the most tragic event in Lviv happened - during the attack, a whole family died - a mother and three daughters. But, despite this, Ukraine continues to live. Indomitable Ukrainians demonstrate their strength and power in dances, at exhibitions, on catwalks. Because the Russian enemy is unable to do one thing - break the spirit of Ukrainians.

Text: Natalya Ryaba

On September 7, demonstrators staged a protest in Prague, holding blue and yellow umbrellas. The participants of the rally called for effective air defense for Ukraine and to give it the opportunity to strike back. Demonstrators created a "map" of Ukraine using blue and yellow umbrellas.

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Students of the International Academy of Personnel Management watch as rescuers put out a fire in one of the buildings of the university after a rocket attack on Kyiv on September 2, 2024. While hiding in the bomb shelter, the students heard the whistling of rockets and explosions.

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Ukrainian military medics render aid to a wounded Ukrainian soldier at a stabilization point in the Chasiv Yar region on September 6, 2024.

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A Ukrainian servicewoman talks on the phone with her children. On September 13, Russia and Ukraine conducted another exchange of prisoners. 49 Ukrainians returned home — 23 women and 26 men. For the first time in a long time, it was possible to return the "Azovs" to Ukraine. The United Arab Emirates helped organize the exchange.

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Ukrainian schoolchildren sing the national anthem during the ceremony for the beginning of the new academic year in Lviv, September 2, 2024.

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September 4 became the most tragic for Lviv during the entire war. A mother and her three daughters were killed in the attack. Only the father remained alive. The whole city came to the funeral of the dead. As a result of shelling in Lviv, seven people died, 66 were injured. Also, 188 buildings were damaged, including 19 architectural monuments.

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A couple looks at posters depicting fallen Ukrainian soldiers of the Azov Brigade at an open-air exhibition in Kyiv on September 23, 2024.

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Freya Brown, a dog trainer in the British Army, with her military dog ​​Zac during a training session with Ukrainian army personnel, at a barracks in the East Midlands, U.K., September 10, 2024. Two years after invasion, large areas of Ukraine are covered in landmines and unexploded ordnance, including cluster munitions, and dogs play a key role in keeping soldiers and civilians safe.

Presentation of Veronika Danilova's collection as part of Ukrainian Fashion Week, September 1, 2024. The designer dedicated her collection called "Garden of the Clouds" to her homeland, inspired by memories of a Ukrainian garden and blossoming apple trees.

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Ruslan Baginskiy hats on Madonna, Guzema jewellery in the series «Emily in Paris», Beyoncé and Jennifer Lopez in dresses by Ivan Frolov, Heidi Klum in an outfit by Lesia Verlingieri on the red carpet in Cannes… The Western world’s interest in Ukrainian brands is growing, and Ukrainians are being invited to participate in global fashion weeks. In September - for the first time during the war - a fashion week was held in Kyiv - Ukrainian Fashion Week (UFW).

After two and a half years of forced absence in Ukraine, it returned to support the Ukrainian fashion industry and amplify Ukraine's voice globally. Over four days, sixty-one brands, including ten new names, presented their vision for the spring-summer 2025 season. Yet, in the context of war, the collections shown were less about fashion and more about resilience and revival. Today, we can say that this fashion week is a historic event for Ukraine.

«People want to live, work and be effective», explains UFW co-founder and head of the organising committee Iryna Danylevska. Sestry spoke with Iryna about the social dimension of fashion and poignant designer statements at UFW 2025, as well as about 2.5 years of Ukrainian fashion abroad.

«The world must understand: if all talented Ukrainians are killed, it will be impoverished»

Oksana Goncharuk: Returning to Ukraine after two and a half years of working abroad - a difficult decision…

Iryna Danylevska: Over these two and a half years, we organised twenty-nine runway events in London, Berlin, Budapest, Lisbon, Vienna, Copenhagen, thereby supporting the Ukrainian fashion industry. But fashion brands are not the entire industry, so we - despite all risks - returned home.

We set three goals: to support the industry and Ukrainians, to demonstrate the need to be effective for the country during the war, and to ensure that Ukraine continues to resonate globally.

Not only the appeals of our politicians, not only reports on destroyed homes and civilian deaths should continuously circulate worldwide. Instead, we wanted to show Ukraine as a country of not only courageous but also talented people. So that those who, somewhere abroad, view photos from UFW held in Kyiv during wartime, come to understand: if all these talented people here are killed, the world will be impoverished.

- How many countries have seen our fashion during the war?

- Since the start of the war, we have held shows in 12 countries. These were exclusively official events such as fashion weeks or major international exhibitions.

It was a revelation for us that global fashion, which is considered a highly competitive environment, was ready for solidarity

They did not just lend us their catwalks but created special conditions, understanding how difficult it is for Ukrainian brands to survive during the war. London, Budapest, Berlin, Lisbon, Los Angeles - everywhere we had comfortable conditions for shows. Some provided free venues, some paid for models, some - like Berlin Fashion Week - could, with state support, invite our young designers and cover their tickets and accommodation. This was powerful support for which we are sincerely grateful.

- Where did the first Ukrainian show during the war take place?

- In Malta, in the summer of 2022. Designer Nadiya Dzyak participated in Malta Fashion Week. Models walked the runway with yellow and blue scarves, and our wheat-and-sky flag was displayed on the backdrop. The organisers also requested that we record a video message explaining events in Ukraine, which they played repeatedly.

- Did any state institutions ever offer you assistance?

- Everything was on our initiative and personal connections.

However, when we needed male designers to travel to London or Copenhagen, we sought help from the Ministry of Culture and Information Policy. We are very grateful to USAID (the United States Agency for International Development, which provides non-military aid - Edit.), which implements the «Competitive Economy of Ukraine» programme. Thanks to grants from the fund, we held five events.

Fashion Created in Bomb Shelters

- How did you personally react to the start of the war before realising action was necessary?

- I awoke immediately. Only a week had passed since the full-scale invasion, and we were already writing letters to all global fashion organisations, proposing six effective steps to support Ukraine. We advised hiring Ukrainians from the fashion sector who had found themselves abroad, avoiding collaboration with Russian models or brands. We asked employees of large fashion corporations to write letters to their leaders to encourage them to help Ukraine. We also provided several specific addresses for assistance - verified charitable foundations.

In March, the initiative Support Ukrainian Fashion (SUF) was born. We sent 16 letters, informing colleagues that Ukrainian fashion brands were on the verge of survival. We immediately received 12 responses with offers of support and acceptance. Among the first to respond were Copenhagen, Berlin, Budapest, Bucharest and Vienna.

- Did you consider leaving the country with your family?

- No, because we knew we could be useful at home. Our entire family made this decision. I focused on fashion brands, our daughter Dana, a professional psychotherapist, continued her practice. My husband, Volodymyr Nechiporuk (UFW's general producer - Edit.), who has volunteered and helped wounded soldiers since 2014, immediately chose this path. We divided tasks to be as effective as possible.

At the start of the war, we did send our grandchildren to relatives in the Ternopil region, but they returned after two months. Since then, we have all lived together in a house near Kyiv. When there are attacks and it becomes dangerous, we hide in the garage, which is buried on three sides and serves as a shelter.

- How does the Ukrainian Fashion Week team work on its messages? How should we speak to the world today to be heard?

- That is a very good question, as we must constantly think about what we want to convey. Over the two and a half years of war and four fashion seasons, we have adjusted these messages multiple times.

For example, in early 2023, we needed the world's support and donations. At London Fashion Week, we held a joint show of collections created during the war by three Ukrainian brands (KSENIASCHNAIDER, PASKAL and FROLOV). At the end of the show, the designers appeared with a Ukrainian flag bearing the UNITED24 logo (a fundraising platform collecting aid for Ukraine worldwide - Edit.).

In 2023, before each show, we wrote letters to guests instead of releases, explaining that the collections they were about to see were created amid the sounds of alarms, during explosions and blackouts…

So that everyone understood that the collections were made by brave and resilient people.

Later, when talk began of the need to «negotiate», we added to our messages that we are being killed simply because we want to be Ukrainians in an independent state.

It is important to always bridge the emotional with the official to convey that we must win this war - otherwise, it will keep repeating, as Russia will not allow us to be free.

This season, we held shows in Budapest, Berlin and Copenhagen. Copenhagen Fashion Week is about sustainability, environmental awareness and sustainable development. The Danes respond strongly to issues of ecology and nature preservation. When we discussed with designers what message to convey to the guests, we came up with the idea of telling them about our Askania-Nova biosphere reserve. Okay, you care about nature preservation - then look at how Europe's largest steppe reserve is being destroyed in plain sight, literally obliterated by the Russians.

To tell the story of Askania-Nova, we chose Ukrainian vytynanka - one of the most vivid traditional forms of our craft. Imagine: the entire second floor of the Ukrainian House in Denmark was filled with vytynanky depicting zebras, herons, other animals and birds, as well as plants from the reserve. It was against this backdrop that the new collections were presented.

- How impactful are your messages?

- We have not broken the system, but we have contributed to helping Europeans and Americans understand what is really happening.

The power of culture is in its constant, emotional and sincere expression. People need to encounter reminders everywhere: Ukrainians are fighting for freedom, for the right to be Ukrainian. Some are born with the right to be free, while Ukrainians must fight for this right.

«War drives us to fulfil old dreams, as it is uncertain if there will be a tomorrow»

- You mentioned that the fashion industry froze at the start of the war. How is it today?

- The market froze, not the industry. In 2022, Ukrainian designers simply shifted their production to military needs, began sewing for the army, which suddenly grew due to volunteers. Every sphere suffers during war, but most designer brands have survived - thanks to our support, the move towards exports and an increase in online sales.

There are phenomena that were born during the war. Antonina Belinska, a talented movie costume designer, had always dreamed of her own clothing brand.

After overcoming the initial shock of the war, she finally dared to make this dream a reality and created the brand TONiA. To me, this is a poignant story about how the uncertainty of tomorrow pushes us to fulfil our dreams today.

- Are Ukrainian designers involved in creating military uniforms, particularly for women?

- The Veteranka sewing workshop creates winter, demi-season and summer military uniforms. In two years, this workshop has produced 1291 units of women’s tactical clothing.

Since the start of the large-scale war, Veteranka has received hundreds of requests from female soldiers asking for adjustments to the men’s uniforms they were issued. Therefore, the workshop focused on sewing high-quality women's military uniforms, which are provided free of charge to female defenders upon request.

- When you decided that UFW would happen, were the designers ready to accept this challenge?

- We began discussing fashion week in Ukraine as early as November 2023. Even then, designers started writing and calling me.

On the very first day, we announced that applications were open, 25 were submitted. This only strengthened our belief that such an event was necessary right now. However, we took a long time to make an official announcement, which we did only once preparations were in full swing.

We spent considerable time figuring out how to ensure everyone could go to the shelter during air raids and return to the shows afterwards without completely disrupting the schedule. We thought about holding the event not at Mystetskyi Arsenal, but directly in a shelter. However, Mystetskyi Arsenal won, as it is a reliable building with a shelter for 800 people.

Of course, we were also concerned about power outages, so we secured our operations with two generators.

- How many air raid alerts occurred during Fashion Week?

- It is a miracle, but there was not a single alert at that time. They happened between the first and second days of the event, and a journalist from British Vogue, who was brave enough to come to Ukraine for the event, wrote in his article that instead of an opening party, UFW had alerts and explosions.

- The art installation showcasing our designers' responses to the war received significant resonance...

- These are 18 artworks that designers created as reflections on the war. For example, Bevza's necklace, which resembles a circle of charred wheat stalks - a symbolic reminder of Ukrainian wheat that feeds many countries worldwide. Or Ksenia Schnaider's jacket, sewn from ties that Ukrainian men no longer need, as they are at the frontline. Another example is a jacket that designer Maria Starchak created right after the Mariupol tragedy - it is embroidered with the theatre bombed by the Russians, with the word «ДЕТИ» (from Russian - children) on the bottom.

From OMELIA, there is a shirt with flowers. One might wonder, what does it have to do with the war? Designer Kostyantyn Omelia said that when he returned to his studio in 2022 after forced evacuation, he saw dried flowers in vases that left a strong impression on him.

- How has the war manifested in new collections?

- Designers know how to speak about the war in a way that chills to the bone. For instance, in the shows of brands Andreas Moskin, Gasanova and Nadya Dzyak, our veterans appeared on the runway with prosthetics, conveying more about our reality and the war than any military-style clothing could.

- Guests gave standing ovations to the veterans on the runway. I was personally struck by ballroom dance champion Kateryna Stashchyshak, who professionally danced in peacetime, but the war took her leg. How challenging is it for such people to walk the runway?

- This is also about courage. They did it to show our Ukrainian life. Inclusivity is not a trend, it is our new reality, and we are ready to live this way. We respect and bow to these people. They will never be separated from the processes taking place in the country. They should not sit at home alone with their pain.

Photos: UFW

IWONA REICHARDT: You were in the United States during the final stages of the presidential campaign, and you witnessed the results in Ukraine. Were they a surprise to you?

TAMAR JACOBY: I was – it was a punch in the gut. But I shouldn't have been surprised. Now that I look at the results, I think we all should have seen it coming. We told ourselves it was 50-50, but it wasn't 50-50. Trump won by a significant margin. I don't blame the polling – I don’t think that’s the main problem. I think that people just didn't want to see a Trump victory coming. I certainly didn't want to see it. Now we need to accept that Americans have embraced Donald Trump. 

It's hard to understand why exactly. Is it that voters don't believe he'll do all the crazy things he says he will do? Or is it that they really just don't like the direction that Democrats were taking the country? Why this wholehearted embrace? I’m still struggling to understand it. But clearly Americans have embraced Trump, and we are going to have to accept the choice and live with it for four years. 

Speaking of the crazy stuff you mentioned, one of Trump’s promises is to end the war in Ukraine in a day, something which seems inconceivable… 

Yes, Ukrainian social media had a field day with that in the first days after the election: “The clock is ticking. Don, where is the peace?” But jokes aside, I don't think he will be able to end the war in a day. I think he will find it harder to end than he thinks.  

The big question will be what kind of deal does he propose? I'm very concerned about some of the deals that his advisors have suggested. The second question is how will Putin react? The response from Russia in the last two or three days has not been particularly forthcoming. The third question will be how seriously will Trump stick with his proposal? If you remember his negotiations with North Korea in the first term, he gave up after just a few days of talks. 

So yes, there are many questions about his promise to end the war in 24 hours. Also, when he says he's going to walk away from Ukraine – in fact he hasn't said that exactly, but people have read his comments to mean that. We don’t know what he intends. Does he mean no new weapons from the US, or an end to all support? Or does he mean that the US will continue to provide intelligence and let the Europeans provide military aid, including by purchasing US weapons?

Bottom line: there are many versions of what could happen now, and I think people should focus on making arguments that might persuade Trump to do the right thing rather than immediately assuming he’ll do the worst

What do you think success would mean for Trump when it comes to ending the war in Ukraine? 

We don't know yet. Trump is a very reactive, emotional person. So, a lot depends on how it plays out. He won’t react well if he feels that Putin is snubbing him – that could work to Ukraine’s advantage. And he won’t like it if it looks like America has somehow failed and betrayed its ally. So we just have to see. There are many unknowns and many things that need to play out. What’s important now is to try to help Trump see Ukraine in a frame that could be positive.

This gets us to the Trump-Putin relationship. Who is Putin for Trump? A friend or a foe? 

Unclear. But he is still definitely a foe for Ukraine and the rest of the West. And nothing suggests a change of attitude among ordinary Russians. Ukrainian social media monitors Russian social media very closely, and there’s been a lot of talk in recent days about how America is still Russia’s enemy and America will always be Russia’s enemy. One Ukrainian headline quoted a Russian saying, “Same jerk, different face” – meaning Trump is no different from Biden, And a lot of that attitude is fanned by Putin and his allies.

The big question about the negotiations is what will Trump put on the table?

If Putin walks away, I can imagine there would be consequences – I could see Trump hammering him hard. The question is, why would he walk away? If Trump proposes a freezing of the front line and a Ukrainian promise not to join NATO, why would Putin walk away? That’s my biggest concern. But again, we just don't know. 

Also, let’s not forget about the fourth big player – Europe. You have Ukraine, you have the US, you have Russia, but you also have Europe. And Europe has to get its act together and step up. We could see a scenario where Trump backs away but says “Europe, it’s your responsibility”. Europe then has to find the money and the weapons, and step in. Europeans have been talking about these responsibilities since the war began, but they haven't really done much to increase their military capacity. Poland is spending more, but Germany is still spending almost nothing, and the German government has just collapsed. That is why I'm as concerned about what's going on in Europe as I am about what's happening in the US. 

Do you think Europe, and especially countries such as Poland or the Baltic states, should worry right now? Does Trump’s victory mean we are more at risk of war coming to our door? 

The bottom line is that Europe has to step up. No matter who is president of the United States. Even if Kamala Harris had won, Europe would need to get going. It is not enough to talk the talk – “We have to spend more”. Europeans have to allocate the money and cooperate with each other to make every dollar go as far it can. And they have to do it efficiently. There has been a lot of talk, but the train has not left the station. I understand – things take time in Brussels, and it's complicated. But come on, hurry up. People are dying in eastern Ukraine. And this war will come to Europe’s doorstep. The threats are already on your doorstep. And in this regard, I think Trump’s election might actually help – might push the Europeans to act in a way that the situation on the front line hasn’t pushed them. 

Speaking about the front line, and the overall situation in Ukraine, all the prognoses are not optimistic…

It's not good. The Russians are relying more and more heavily on glide bombs, a brutal tactic. They destroy the place they're trying to take, and then they send in men. And nobody has figured out how to counter these attacks. These are old-fashioned aerial bombs with wings, and they're huge. When they hit, they can destroy whole buildings. And that's what the Russians have done – destroyed city after city.

Meanwhile, Ukraine’s ammunition is dwindling, and the men are tired. As I understand things, this summer’s mobilization drive has largely fizzled out, and desertions are up. The Ukrainian public is still hanging in there. Opinion polls don’t show much change in attitudes toward the war over the last six months.

Life is amazingly normal in Kyiv. For me, it's great to be back. But people are tired, and I think they are waiting to see how Trump’s election will change the dynamic

Ukrainians are so tired of fighting with one hand tied behind their back, getting some American and European weaponry but not enough and not permitted to use it as they think it should be used. I lot of people are eager for  something bolder – and many think that may be Trump. Many people are worried about him, but some people are hopeful. Maybe Trump will break something – will somehow break the logjam. 

Do you feel the sense of abandonment in Ukraine? Do Ukrainians feel abandoned by the West, by Poland, by the US? 

Those countries aren’t all the same. I think most Poles understand what is going on in Ukraine – understand the existential Russian threat. Most Europeans get it. But most Americans do not get it. They don't understand the stakes or the magnitude of the threat, unfortunately. For most Americans, this war is very far away. And their view of the stakes is more transactional than existential. But even in Europe,  let’s be honest, there is more talk than action. Abandonment is a big word, but maybe it's not far from the truth. It's becoming a lonely fight for Ukraine.

What is America going to do now, during this period when Joe Biden is a lame duck and Donald Trump is president-elect? 

I do not think there will be another supplemental funding package from Congress. I just don't see it. Both the House and the Senate are now Republican and under Trump’s sway. Still, a few things could happen between now and January. 

We haven't spent all the money from the last supplemental, and we should rush to do that

Senator Lindsey Graham has an interesting idea: giving Ukraine the same status as Israel, opening the way to much wider access to US weapons. It's not quite NATO membership, but it's a lot better than what Ukraine has now. We should also be looking at the rules that govern how American defense contractors can cooperate with contractors in other countries.

Many of these are small things, but the point is it's way too soon to give up. There are things that can be done in the US, things that can be done in Europe. Maybe most important is what Zelenskyy and others are doing – thinking about what arguments will be most compelling to the Trump team. All of these steps can make a difference, and we have to go on. The war is not over. Ukrainians are still fighting, and Russia looks as menacing as ever, for Ukraine and the rest of Europe.

Cover photo: 24th Mechanised Brigade named after King Danylo of the Ukrainian Armed Forces/AFP/East News

What is «feminist foreign policy»?

Feminist foreign policy originated in Sweden. Sweden has long been a global leader in gender equality within political institutions, with women comprising 46 per cent of their parliament. In 2014, Sweden decided it was time to broaden its approach. It became the first country to base its international activities on feminist values - specifically, the pursuit of gender equality and the empowerment of women worldwide. Today, the term has taken on a much broader meaning, encompassing the representation of all social groups at risk of discrimination based on gender, age, skin colour, sexual orientation, or disability. Countries that adopt this approach view it as essential to achieving lasting peace and sustainable development on Earth.

What does this mean in practice?

For instance, it means ensuring the rights of both men and women in countries where those rights are not protected. A strong example was seen in Poland when the united right-wing government strengthened abortion laws. In response, the governments of Belgium and the Netherlands decided to support Polish women by providing access to abortion, despite the restrictive ban imposed by Polish authorities. These governments prioritised the interests of citizens over those of the Polish state or its ruling party.

Similarly, support was extended to girls in Afghanistan, despite Donald Trump’s agreement with the Taliban, and to women protesters in Iran.

Since we are part of the Western, civilised world and believe in its values - such as democracy, the rule of law and human rights - we should feel obligated to seek ways to help these persecuted groups, whether they are women, children, or ethnic minorities.

This is the essence of feminist foreign policy.

It has now been 10 years since Sweden announced this approach, followed by Canada and France. More recently, Germany has joined. It is remarkable how this traditionally conservative country is breaking the ice for women's rights.

Indeed, Angela Merkel became the first female chancellor and held the position longer than anyone before her. Ursula von der Leyen was the first female defence minister and went on to become the first woman to lead the European Commission.

At the moment, Europe is not in the best shape when it comes to the strength of progressive parties. In Sweden, despite being the founding country of feminist foreign policy, the new right-wing government has officially abandoned the term. While colleagues from the Swedish embassy assure us that little has changed in practice, it is clear that the name bothered someone. The same is happening in the Netherlands, where the new right-wing government is also moving away from this policy.

The influence of conservative, right-wing parties is visible everywhere. For the first time in decades, we are seeing a decline in women's representation in the European Parliament - 39 per cent in this term compared to 41 per cent in the previous one.

This makes the European Union's gender equality strategy all the more important. For far too long, we associated foreign policy mainly with gentlemen deciding the fate of the world over cigars and whiskey.

When Angela Merkel stepped down, Germans often shared a joke that perfectly illustrates the shift: a little boy asks his mother: «Mom, can a man be chancellor?»

This shows just how powerful examples are in changing perceptions about what women and men «can» do. The child had only ever known a female chancellor, and for him, it seemed natural.

‍Yes, but the few names we often cite as examples are still not enough. The reality is more like a photo from the G20 Summit: Angela Merkel surrounded by a sea of men in suits. In Poland, we are at a point where there is not a single woman on the list of presidential candidates.

First and foremost, the representation at the top depends on who is in the so-called «base» - how many women are at lower levels from which future candidates can emerge. That is why striving for equality in everyday life is so important. Whether I am meeting with local activists or political scientists from the University of Warsaw, the common theme in these discussions is always the issue of equal distribution of household responsibilities, especially childcare.

Is this still the case?

‍Unfortunately, yes. This is still something we must fight for. Otherwise, experts predict that real change will not happen for another hundred years or more. That means none of us, nor any girls born today, will live to see it. This is why the «base» matters so much - how we raise our daughters, and even more importantly, how we raise our sons.

Because in the end, as long as we do not impose stereotypical roles, children naturally think in terms of equality.

And when it comes to childcare, aside from breastfeeding, there are no limitations that prevent a man from taking care of a child just as well as a woman. These barriers only exist in our minds, rooted in cultural patterns and social norms

If we do not change this, we will keep hearing degrading arguments like «a woman can not be president in a country near the frontlines» or questioning whether a man with a medical background can be the Minister of Defense during wartime. Yet, we have such a minister in Poland [Władysław Kosiniak-Kamysz, Minister of National Defence, is a medical doctor].

And no one questions his qualifications. No man needs to explain to another that he is both a doctor and the Minister of National Defense in a country near the frontlines.

Rebecca Solnit's quote fits perfectly here: «A novel without women is often considered a book about all humanity, while a book with women at the forefront is categorised as women’s literature».

The system is flawed because it was created by men and for men. It is no surprise that this change is difficult for those who benefit from the current structure, the ones who make the rules.

A woman can fly to space just as a man can. She can be president, prime minister, or anything she chooses to be, and she can make her own decisions. It is about ensuring equal access to education, power, politics and the labour market, while also creating conditions that allow her to become a mother if she chooses.

Feminist foreign policy is not about excluding men, on the contrary - it advocates for equal treatment of everyone. That is why one of the tools for change includes the implementation of quotas and parity, depending on the institution and context. This is a step toward normalising what is still seen today as revolutionary.

In Poland, we certainly have a long way to go. Women make up only 30 per cent of all parliamentarians, one of the lowest rates in Europe. However, regardless of the country - except perhaps Sweden - women pay a higher personal price for a political career than men do. They are constantly asked how they balance their careers and motherhood.

And if they do not have children, like Kamala Harris or Angela Merkel, it becomes another source of criticism. Women who reach the top pay a steep price or have already paid it on the way there. New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern stepped down from politics for personal reasons. Ursula von der Leyen started her political career at 40 after raising her children, yet she still faced years of ridicule for supposedly advancing her career at her children's expense. Men are not held to the same scrutiny. Von der Leyen was criticised for almost everything, «pursued» in ways few politicians in Germany have experienced.

A striking example is Magdalena Filiks. It is no coincidence that the intense bullying campaign, which ultimately led to her teenage son's suicide, targeted a divorced woman and single mother. Similarly, Minister Joanna Mucha admitted she almost gave up when she saw how the harassment impacted her children. This kind of targeted bullying happens to women in politics far more often than it does to men.

However, we have no choice but to endure it, to push through until real change happens. Yes, there will be moments when we’ll face malicious comments and condescending attitudes, but change will come, and the system will eventually adapt.

The creation of the FemGlobal Association is another step towards increasing the presence of women in international politics and the public sphere.

It is clear that the visibility of women in public spaces - as experts in panel discussions or commentators on television - is crucial for shifting public consciousness.

According to the most recent available data, female experts make up only 23 per cent of those featured in Polish media. That is why in our association, we have created a database of female experts in international politics, and we work hard to ensure they are represented in the media. For example, when the Taliban took over Afghanistan, I watched perhaps the fifth program on a particular TV channel covering the situation, and it only featured male commentators. I reached out to the editor and suggested some of our female experts, and it worked. I closely monitor this phenomenon of increasing women’s invitations to TV. It happens twice a year: first on March 8th, and then on October 20th, when they are invited to comment on the Constitutional Court's ruling on abortion. After that, it fades, and we return to the norm, where men are the first to be chosen. Recently, during a meeting at the Mexican embassy, I explained why Poland still hosts debates with only male participants, while in Mexico, such debates are no longer acceptable.

In the report you and Iwona Reichardt co-authored in 2020 «Will Women Save the World? Feminist Foreign Policy», you mentioned war as a threat to the development of feminist foreign policy. Defence and security remain highly masculinised fields.

Of course, security, understood in the traditional sense as armed action and military struggle, typically requires endurance and strength and is primarily associated with men. However, this too is changing; for instance, more than 67 thousand women currently serve in the Ukrainian Armed Forces. There is no other army in the world with such a number of women.

What about Israel?

In Ukraine, there are over 5 thousand active female soldiers fighting on the frontlines. This is truly a unique phenomenon that the entire world is observing. It is an experience from which others will also learn. Although, of course, it is immensely tragic, as is any war. Yet these women are showing other women, in other places and in other armies, that it is possible. Others need not wait for war to create the necessary conditions, career paths, uniforms, and body armour that allow women to be fully-fledged soldiers. The United Nations' agenda on «Women, Peace and Security» also encompasses gender equality in the armed forces.

But security is not just about military action.

Exactly, I believe the time has come to broaden the concept of national security and introduce a feminist perspective, as this is an even more male-dominated area than foreign policy, where men also predominate. Security is not solely about purchasing Abrams tanks or F-35 aircraft. A feminist perspective involves the participation of women in decision-making, mediation and negotiations.

At the same time, in conflict situations, the feminist perspective becomes particularly significant, as it is precisely in such times that women and children require special protection.

The importance of this was aptly highlighted by the German Foreign Minister, Annalena Baerbock, who said: «The question is whether families, children in the heart of Europe, in the centre of our Europe, can be safe and grow up in peace. Only when women are safe will everyone be safe».

For our own security, it is also crucial that we know where the nearest shelter is, which medicines to prepare, and how to act in an emergency. The state must allocate resources to equip us, as women, with this knowledge and these skills

The issue of security also includes ensuring access to fast, legal and safe abortion services. This is because we know that rape is now regarded as a method of warfare.

You are also an expert on migration policy. Given the current situation following the war in Ukraine, it is arguably one of the biggest challenges facing the European Union. I am not sure if feminists will save the world, but I fear that migration policy, or rather its absence, might well bring Europe to its knees.

Firstly, migration has always existed and will continue to do so.

However, there has been a noticeable increase in recent years.

Indeed, because the global population has grown, and for some, we have become a destination country. But let us take a look at our families, at our immediate surroundings. Each of us has someone who has emigrated abroad.

So the problem is not migration itself, but the lack of discussion around it. The greatest failing is that politicians, from the centre to the left, are afraid to speak about it, thereby leaving the issue to the right and far-right politicians. They exploit this silence, this ignorance, and this fear.

People have a right to be afraid, to feel uncomfortable. If we do not discuss these concerns and relieve this tension, discomfort will evolve into hostility.

But what should we be talking about?

First and foremost, we should inform. We need to show that migration is a phenomenon that has always existed and will continue to exist. Furthermore, that we, Poles, have also migrated and live in various parts of the world.

Secondly, I believe that schools should be places of integration. They provide a space where both sides can meet. All children in Poland are entitled to compulsory education, so schools can serve as a venue for fostering integration and teaching openness. Moreover, this should be a mission of public television as well: education, combating stereotypes, and social campaigns. Without this, we fall victim to populists and disinformation.

I feel as though that has already happened.

Perhaps things are not as dire as they seem. Hostility towards foreigners must be dismantled through education and experience. The more direct contact one has with foreigners, the less one fears them. Interestingly, the greatest fear of immigrants is found in eastern Germany, where there are the fewest. This is because it is easiest to manipulate perceptions and prejudices in such areas, where disinformation thrives.

Business must also serve as a platform for a positive narrative. Businesses need foreign workers due to a shortage of labour in the market

In Poland, an impressive 62 per cent of Ukrainians found employment within their first year after arriving. This is a phenomenal result on the international stage.

What is the usual situation?

On average, it is estimated that around 30 per cent of migrants find employment within their first year. Another 30 per cent enter the labour market within two to three years, needing time to retrain, learn the language, and adapt. The remaining 30 per cent never secure employment, either because they had not worked in their home country, or they are elderly, ill, traumatised, or otherwise unable to work.

How can such a result be explained? Is it due to a lack of social programmes or low welfare payments?

Firstly, Poland already had a relatively large Ukrainian community, which has helped newcomers access the job market. Secondly, it is a matter of the social group. Many of those who arrived in Poland are highly educated, middle-class individuals with in-demand professions, such as doctors or IT specialists. And, of course, language plays a role, as Ukrainians find it considerably easier to learn Polish than German or French.

It is precisely this narrative - that Ukrainians contribute to our GDP - that should permeate public opinion, rather than the notion that they are living solely off benefits.

Exactly. People just need help adjusting to this, because it is a new experience of this scale, and it is natural for it to be challenging. In such circumstances, we often look for someone to blame, typically targeting those perceived to be lower on the social ladder. Migrants are always viewed as being lower - lower than those from the so-called Poland «B» (a term symbolising the less developed areas of the country, as opposed to Poland «A», the more developed regions), lower than those from rural areas. This is why we need a wise state policy.

We must ensure that Poles feel comfortable and secure in Poland because this helps them accept that others can also feel comfortable here.

This is where feminist policy comes in, advocating for equality, inclusivity and social justice.

Following the announcements about the next year’s support reduction, Germany sent additional weaponry to Ukraine, among them are new Anti-aircraft weapons, UAVs, rifles and ammunition. But the amount of funds Germany will dedicate to Kyiv’s defence needs in 2025 remains unknown until Autumn.

What is the current mood within the government and the Bundestag? Will the support change, and could the successful raid in Kursk have an impact? Furthermore, how might the latest findings from the investigation into the Nord Stream pipeline explosions affect relations with Ukraine? These and other questions were addressed in an exclusive interview with Sestry by Roderich Kiesewetter, a member of the largest opposition faction, the CDU/CSU, in the German parliament.

Aid to Ukraine vs «Nord Stream»

Maryna Stepanenko: The German publication Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung (FAS) reports that Germany will limit its aid to Ukraine in the near future. Our Ministry of Foreign Affairs has already called this information manipulative, stating that negotiations regarding the budget for next year are still ongoing in your country. Last time, after lengthy negotiations, the funding level for 2024 was raised from 4 to almost 8 billion euros. What about next year? What is the current mood and thinking in the Bundestag?

Roderich Kiesewetter: The Bundestag and the government have differing views. The government would like to limit aid to Ukraine, with plans to cut it in half in 2025 and finance it outside the federal budget. This is not just indicated by the government itself, but also by the German Chancellor's Office.

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the Ministry of Defence are advocating for increased support, but Scholz's office has instructed the Ministry of Finance to freeze it. We have an annual budget of around half a billion euros, and debates are focused on the 17 billion that are missing from the federal budget for next year.

And now, to compensate for those funds, the support for Ukraine has to be reduced, especially the military support

This reflects a lack of priorities and a clear position. The problem is that the government, particularly the Chancellor's Office, wants to cut aid to Ukraine for internal reasons. To justify this decision, one could tie it to the leaked information that Ukraine might have destroyed the Nord Stream pipelines. If this is the case, it is not even a punishment but a strange framing of incorrect, reckless information from certain investigative journalists. This does not seem like a coincidence.

It seems intentional that, in the same week when two different groups of investigative journalists try to blame Ukraine for the destruction of the Nord Stream, which could be a covert action by Russia, budget cuts that harm Ukraine are being discussed.

The Wall Street Journal (WSJ) investigation into the September 2022 sabotage of the Nord Stream pipelines suggests the alleged involvement of Ukrainian officials - President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and then-head of the Armed Forces, Valeriy Zaluzhnyi. What are your thoughts on this?

The WSJ article came out in competition with a piece by the German publication Spiegel, which was released a day earlier. Both publications seem to be steering toward the conclusion that Ukrainian officials gave the order to destroy Nord Stream.

The WSJ investigation is indeed puzzling because it claims that Russia was earning billions of euros from Nord Stream, which is not true. Since July 2022, not a single gallon of gas has flowed through the pipeline, and even in the preceding months, only 40 per cent of the promised supply was delivered. So, if Ukraine had destroyed it, they would have essentially been «killing a dead horse». Why would they expend their efforts on that?

Secondly, if Zelenskyy was unable to communicate with the team that received the order to destroy the Nord Stream, why was this team reachable via satellite phone? That also does not add up. Thirdly, there is mention of a person referred to as Volodymyr Z. (in German publications - Wolodymyr Z. or Wladimir S., depending on the transliteration - Author) with a Ukrainian passport, but no one mentions that he could have had other passports, like Diana B. (another suspect according to the investigators' version - Author). She was the owner of the company that rented the yacht «Andromeda», but she also held a Russian passport. She lived in Crimea and is now in Krasnodar, so she is Russian, not Ukrainian. Furthermore, there are no witnesses, there are only secret sources. In my opinion, the WSJ story is inconsistent and implausible.

I do not believe this because if Ukraine had done something like this, it would have become public knowledge and would have caused harm to Kyiv. Therefore, I can not imagine that the Ukrainian government destroyed the Nord Stream pipelines or ordered such an action

The former head of German intelligence, August Hanning, previously suggested that Poland could be involved in the sabotage of the Nord Stream pipelines. In response to the ongoing investigation, Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk advised all initiators and patrons of the blown-up pipelines to «apologise and keep quiet». How do you assess such a statement?

Hanning does not question the findings of these questionable investigative groups, which annoys me, but it does not surprise me. Many former high-ranking officials in Germany have very close ties with Russia and a longstanding pro-Russian tradition, which we need to take into account. Russia uses pro-Russian voices in science, media, economics, and politics for its information warfare and can use them for deeper psychological operations. These individuals may appear authoritative but, in reality, become tools of a hybrid war in favour of Russia.

There is a group in Germany trying to make Ukraine the scapegoat to justify halting support. I can not explain Tusk's role, and we must be very careful not to resort to insinuations or accusations

I know that the German federal prosecutor is very upset about this story because it jeopardises his own investigation - the leak likely came from politically responsible people in the Chancellor's Office. He can not work as he should because those who destroyed the Nord Stream pipelines are now warned. And that is where the danger lies now.

If these individuals are in Russia, they are breathing a sigh of relief since Germany believes that Ukraine destroyed the pipelines. Therefore, we must be very cautious with Hanning's statements, Tusk's remarks, and, in general, with any hasty accusations.

Friends of Russia in Germany

The German prosecutor's office has issued an arrest warrant for a Ukrainian suspected of sabotaging the Nord Stream pipelines. Two other suspects are also believed to be Ukrainian. Beyond military support, could this impact other areas of cooperation between Germany and Ukraine?

Those who spread these likely fake news stories about the Nord Stream pipelines aim to end German support for Ukraine, undermine trust, and force Ukraine into capitulation. However, they disregard Ukraine's will and strength and fail to consider the Ukrainian population, which does not want to live under a frozen conflict or Russian occupation.

Ukrainians would leave their country if Kyiv were forced into a ceasefire. This is because, on the other side of the border in Russia, brutal violence is being committed against civilians. Ukraine, therefore, does not want to be forced into a ceasefire, as some in Germany, like the Chancellor and others, might prefer. We must be very careful to ensure that no forces on the ground undermine Germany's willingness to support Ukraine.

We have upcoming local elections in Thuringia, Saxony (on September 1), and Brandenburg (on September 22). In these three federal states, there are forces influenced by Russia: the Sarah Wagenknecht Alliance (BSW) and the Alternative for Germany (AfD), which are partially funded or influenced by Russia. Thus, we must be very cautious about any context that benefits the Russian Federation. There is no direct funding, but people from these parties receive money for their personal interests and work within the parties.

There is indeed competition within our country between those who want to see the strengthening of an international order based on the rule of law and those who support the principle of «might makes right» - the power of Russia - and who see Ukraine as a necessary sacrifice for peace with Russia

But they do not realise that Russia does not want peace. Russia considers Ukraine a legitimate part of itself. Therefore, the Russians will continue the war against Ukraine and their hybrid war against Moldova and the Baltic countries. There will be no peace. This is the imperial mindset of Russia, which is not understood by those who wish to stop supporting Ukraine.

Returning to the budget and aid, if German lawmakers allocate no more than 4 billion euros to Ukraine in 2025, what will this mean for Ukraine's defence capabilities?

First of all, Germany is not the only supporter and not the strongest one. Other countries that provide more aid relative to their GDP are Denmark, Norway, Poland, the Baltic states, Sweden, Finland, and the United Kingdom. So, there are other, much more reliable partners.

Secondly, 4 billion euros are already planned. They will be invested in spare parts, ammunition, air defence, and so on. But there is no room for additional support from the regular budget. Therefore, it is crucial for Germany to provide Ukraine with additional assistance ranging from 4 to 10 billion euros next year. The government claims that the interest rate on frozen Russian assets should serve Ukraine's interests.

However, there is still no unified position on this in the European Union. This issue is absolutely unclear and depends, for example, on Hungary's support

In any case, the entirety of frozen Russian assets already belongs to Ukraine. This does not replace the necessary support from Germany and other countries. Therefore, the German government's argument is a kind of distraction, an excuse, and an evasion of responsibility.

On February 16, the German Chancellor, together with President Zelenskyy, signed a security agreement. On that date, he committed to supporting Ukraine for as long as needed, within its 1991 borders. But that signature is not worth the ink it is written with if Germany does not increase its support, and the security agreement holds no real value.

Kursk offensive and German Taurus

In February, in one of your interviews, you said, «the war must be brought to Russian territory», and that «Russian military facilities and headquarters must be destroyed». Six months later, the Ukrainian Armed Forces began an operation in the Kursk region. What was your first reaction?

It was a sigh of relief because, in February, I demanded that we allow Ukraine to transfer the war to Russian territory, cut off Russian strongholds and supply chains, and strike Russian positions, ammunition depots, and those responsible for the war - their ministries, command centres, and logistics zones. For this, I was criticised by my party colleagues and some media. Now, I feel vindicated.

Such operations make sense from a military strategy standpoint, are permitted under international law, and, if successful, provide operational advantages. I am a former military officer. Before entering our parliament, I worked for almost 30 years in international organisations, NATO, the European Union, and the Armed Forces. I have a good understanding of what war entails and what is necessary to deter it and conduct successful operations.

On the other hand, as our defence minister said, it is quite normal for a country under attack to conduct war on the aggressor's territory. This is an entirely normal phenomenon in the world - our defence minister said last April on a talk show. But when I mentioned it in February of this year, people responded that this was warmongering. I argued that it was a necessity, and that is indeed the case.

Ukraine's operation in Kursk seems both correct and effective. We will see how sustainable its success will be, but for now, it is a significant victory for Ukraine. This is the right response to those who still believe in appeasement with Russia

Germany does not question the legality of the actions of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in the Kursk region and does not object to the use of German weapons on Russian territory. However, does the Kursk offensive change the opinions of German politicians about supplying Ukraine with long-range TAURUS missiles?

Unfortunately, no, because in the Social Democratic Party, the faction leader and a very important high-ranking politician in the Chancellor's Office oppose allowing Ukraine to destroy Russian communications, supply chains, etc. This is a deadlock.

My party, the CDU/CSU, strongly supports the transfer of TAURUS missiles, but Chancellor Scholz's office is blocking this. The defence minister wants to proceed with the supply, and the foreign minister supports it as well, but there is no political will because a unanimous government vote is required, and the Social Democratic Party is blocking this issue.

It is necessary, now more than ever, to supply several hundred high-precision, long-range strike systems, such as the TAURUS missiles. We also need to enable our defence industry to produce more tanks, more ammunition and more artillery.

However, this reflects a lack of political will and a deficiency in strategic culture and thinking. It is a spirit of appeasement, reminiscent of Chamberlain in 1938, rather than the approach of Churchill. We have yet to experience a «Churchill moment» in Germany. I am working on changing that

Pressure on Putin

In your opinion, how might the Ukrainian raid impact the situation inside Russia?

In the past, we have seen that when Putin has been under pressure, as during the Wagner Group mutiny, he has shown a preference for negotiations. At that time, he instructed Lukashenko of Belarus to help defuse the tense situation. Lukashenko persuaded Prigozhin to stop and go into exile in Belarus, but Putin later had him killed. So, when Putin is under pressure, he tends to negotiate or make concessions.

The Ukrainian raid provides an opportunity to not only create a buffer zone but also gain leverage in negotiations. For example, if there are future negotiations where Russia is required to withdraw from all of Ukraine, they might be allowed to retain the Kursk region in exchange. This could strengthen Kyiv's negotiating position, but pressure on the Donbas continues to mount. We will see whether the offensive in the Kursk region will ease the situation on other parts of the front, forcing Russia to retreat and redeploy its troops.

Ukraine is losing territory and hundreds of soldiers every day, so Western support needs to increase. In this regard, Germany is sending a very negative signal

Negative for Ukraine because Putin sees that Germany is weak in the knees. It is also problematic for the United States, as those who support isolationists, including Trump, could argue: «Why should we support Ukraine when the Germans are stepping back?» The narrative becomes, «This is Europe's issue, not that of the United States».

It would be a major failure for Germany if we were to lose the United States' support during the upcoming election campaign. That is why we need to invest more and do more. Ukraine must hold its ground and even expand its territory, it should continue the war on Russian soil to be in a better position if forced into negotiations. Ukraine needs to destroy Russian military targets such as missile launchers, airfields, and ammonia depots to limit and, hopefully, stop Russian attacks on Ukrainian critical infrastructure and civilian populations.

I see that there are people in the German government who would like to lift the artificial restriction that the United States and Germany have placed on Ukraine's use of Western weapons on Russian territory. We need countries like the Baltic States, Poland, the Czech Republic, the Scandinavian nations, the United Kingdom, Denmark, and others to increase pressure on Putin, as well as to press Germany to do more. At the moment, Germany is increasingly isolating itself in Europe as a country that does not act according to its economic power. We need to do more and motivate other countries to do the same.

After all, when it comes to rebuilding Ukraine, why should Germany benefit from it? The countries that have genuinely supported Ukraine should be the ones involved in Ukraine's post-war revival.

«We should all fear a weak and unprepared Germany»

Michael Giss, the Commander of the Bundeswehr's Hamburg Regional Command, recently stated that Germany must be prepared for a potential Russian attack within the next five years, given its role as a key NATO transport hub. What is Berlin currently doing to strengthen its defence capabilities?

That is an excellent question. Firstly, it is important to note that we are not talking about five years but rather two to three years. Russia is aware that the West is increasing its pace and losing time and resources. Therefore, they will intensify pressure through disinformation, sabotage and preparation for war over the next two to three years to outpace Europe's efforts.

Secondly, Germany experienced its Zeitenwende in 2022 (referring to Chancellor Olaf Scholz's address to the Bundestag on February 27 2022, following Russia's invasion of Ukraine, where Scholz described the attack as a «historic turning point»). However, that was just a speech - it is already history.

The Defence Minister is not receiving the necessary funding. All his requests have been curtailed. He is getting less money than needed to offset inflation and increase soldiers' pay. As a result, the German Armed Forces lack the support needed to improve their position. This situation is expected to worsen in the next two to three years.

By the late 2020s, when the German Armed Forces are truly at the limits of their capabilities, we will need much more fresh funding. We are talking about an additional 300 billion euros by the end of this decade to modernise our military, but they are only receiving between 5 to 10 billion euros - a small fraction of what is required.

This will reduce the capabilities of the Armed Forces and lower the morale of German soldiers. It is a victory for pacifists and the Social Democratic Party, who are deliberately weakening our military. We have Pistorius, the best Defence Minister in the last 20 years, yet he is not getting the necessary funds. He is a Social Democrat, but even he is not receiving the money needed, which isolates him. And that is very unfortunate.

One day, we may wake up to even greater pressure from Russian propaganda and increased Russian aggression. If we do not recover, we could face a situation akin to the second Jena and Auerstedt (the destruction of the Prussian army by Napoleon in 1806 - Author). Therefore, we need to raise this issue within Germany, but our friends and partners must also step up the pressure.

We need a strong Germany, as Radosław Sikorski said 12-13 years ago: «I fear a weak Germany much more than a strong one» 

We should all fear a weak and unprepared Germany because that would be an invitation for Putin.

Cover photo: Action Press/Shutterstock/Rex Features/East News

This project is co-financed by the Polish-American Freedom Foundation as part of the «Support Ukraine» program, implemented by the «Education for Democracy» Foundation

<add-big-frame>After many months of preparation and pilot training, the mighty roar of F-16 engines can finally be heard over Ukraine. The first shipment of 10 American-made fighters is already performing combat missions, and their presence can be felt on the frontlines. <add-big-frame>

<add-big-frame>Our modern fleet is expected to be joined by 20 new planes by the end of the year. While Ukrainian pilots are training, Kyiv could ask NATO member states about recruiting retired pilots. <add-big-frame>

<add-big-frame>«The deadliest F-16 pilot» of the American Air Force, retired Lieutenant Colonel of the United States Air Force Dan Hampton, also known as Two Dogs, is among those wanting to help Ukraine resist Russian aggression. He spoke about his ambitions to fight and how F-16 will turn the tables of this war in an exclusive interview with Sestry. <add-big-frame>

Marina Stepanenko: Mr Hampton, the first F-16s have finally arrived in Ukraine - how do you assess the journey from a categorical «no» to a definitive «yes»?

Dan Hampton: I think snails move faster, but you know, that does not matter anymore. I wish this had happened a year and a half or two years ago, but now that they are here, the focus should be on using them as effectively as possible to win the war.

Mr Hampton, you are one of the most decorated fighter pilots since the Vietnam War. Over your 20-year career, you completed 151 combat missions in the Middle East during both Gulf Wars. From your professional perspective, what should be the main priorities for the 10 aircraft we currently have? How should we use them?

Of course, it depends on your Air Force and your government, but I am confident they will agree that the first priority should be clearing the skies over Ukraine of Russian aircraft. Once you have air superiority and control your skies, you can move freely on the ground and do whatever you need to do. The Ukrainian Air Force has done a great job and shown immense bravery over the past few years, but I think the F-16s have arrived just in time.

If Ukraine can secure its airspace, it will have many opportunities to carry out other necessary operations to drive the Russians out

‍By the end of the year, the number of F-16s in our arsenal is expected to increase to 30. In your opinion, what opportunities will this open up for us?

The real advantage of the F-16, and what truly frightens the Russians, is that this aircraft can perform so many different tasks, and the pilots are trained to execute a wide variety of missions - whether it is close air support, air combat, or taking out surface-to-air missile systems - anything. So, the more aircraft you have, the more flexibility you will have to carry out multiple missions simultaneously, depending on the need.

‍Overall, Ukraine is expected to receive 79 F-16 fighters. President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has previously stated that to counter Russia in the sky effectively, we need at least 128 aircraft. So, my question is: will the promised number of F-16s be enough to impact the dynamics of the conflict and strengthen the military capabilities of the Ukrainian Armed Forces?

Absolutely. I mean, 30 aircraft would be a very strong start. That is roughly the size of one United States Air Force fighter squadron. So, if you end up with 79 or 80 aircraft, that is almost three squadrons. You could position them in different parts of the country, allowing them to conduct various types of missions. This would give you significant flexibility to support Ukrainian ground forces and push the Russians back across the border.

In Russia, they are trying to downplay the capabilities and potential impact of the F-16s on the battlefield. Yet, recent attacks suggest that the Russians are also targeting American F-16s by striking airfields. What does this behaviour and these actions from the aggressor indicate?

Desperation. They are trying to downplay the role of the F-16 because they have not been able to control the skies over Ukraine for over two years. And they know it. They know they can not advance on the ground without air superiority. They tried to achieve this in the first 10 days of the war, but the Ukrainians completely shattered them. So, of course, they are going to say things like that. But who believes what the Russians say, right? I mean, they make everything up. They lie. It is propaganda.

If I were there with my colleagues, flying and fighting alongside the Ukrainians, they would not need to find me. I would find them myself. And I am confident your pilots feel the same way. So, it does not matter what the Russians say

United States Senator Lindsey Graham, a Republican, has stated that he plans to ask President Joe Biden for permission to allow retired pilots to fly on Ukraine's behalf. You have previously mentioned that if you could, you would come to Ukraine and fight on our side. Do you still have that desire?

Absolutely. We are working on it. It is challenging for former officers, but I believe we will make it happen. There is a big difference between a volunteer with a rifle joining the ground forces and a former military officer flying to fight for Ukraine. So, these are political issues that, I hope - really hope - will be resolved very, very soon.

How do you feel about the idea of basing Ukrainian F-16s abroad for security reasons, for example, in Poland? There, you have good runways and maintenance capabilities. After all, Russia has kept its aircraft in Belarus and launched attacks from there.

It is no different. You know, everyone makes a big deal about not using Western weapons to strike Russian territory. But they constantly do it to Ukraine, don’t they? The Russians are using lousy North Korean ammunition, foolish drones from Iran, and other weapons. And, you know, it does not matter.

Regarding the use of Poland, it is a political issue. And since Poland is part of NATO, it makes the situation a bit more complicated. I do not have a definitive answer for you. I think Ukraine aims to have several well-protected airbases within its borders, where these aircraft can be serviced, repaired if necessary, and continue flying.

I do not think Ukraine wants to rely on anyone else, and you should not have to. And if everything goes as it should, you will not need to rely on others. You will get all the help and equipment you need, the political issues will be resolved, and you will win the war.

Do you foresee any logistical challenges in deploying and maintaining the F-16s in Ukraine?

You know, I can not give you a definite answer because I have not seen where these planes are based or what agreements have been made. I know that your government and military are smart enough to think through all of this, and they have had enough time to prepare for the arrival of the F-16s. So, I have to believe that everything necessary to keep these aircraft flying and fighting has already been established.

The United States will provide the F-16s with domestically produced missiles and other advanced weaponry, including the latest version of the AIM-120 AMRAAM air-to-air missile and the AIM-9X short-range air-to-air missile. Can you tell us what this weaponry is capable of?

This is a very good decision because you definitely need this weaponry, and it makes the F-16s significantly more dangerous for the Russians. The AIM-120 AMRAAM is an active radar-guided missile, which means that the aircraft launching it does not need to keep the enemy on its radar. It can fire the missile, which has its own radar inside, and it will head towards the target and destroy it. This allows the launching aircraft to target multiple enemy planes at the same time, and the missile will do the rest.

As for the AIM-9X, it is an infrared missile with a high range. You do not necessarily need to aim directly at the target. You could be sideways to the target, and the AIM-9 will find the heat source and take it out.

So that is good. This is top-notch weaponry used by our Air Force, and I am glad we are providing it to the Ukrainian Air Force

Despite the extensive support of F-16 weaponry, the United States still prohibits strikes deep into Russian territory from these jets. What could change Washington's stance on this matter?

That is a very good question. I do not understand politicians, so I can not figure out what they are thinking. I believe it is foolish to give someone a weapon and then tell them they can only use it up to a certain point.

And if Washington is trying to maintain some sort of friendship with Moscow for whatever reason, I do not see the point. I do not care what Vladimir Putin and the Kremlin think about Western weapons reaching Ukraine. After all, they are attacking Ukraine with their own weapons and those they are receiving from other countries, aren’t they?

So, what is the difference if the situation were reversed? Russia is not going to do anything reckless, like attacking NATO or the United States Even Putin would not go that far

I would like our government to be less timid and say, «Hey, this is your weapon, use it as you see fit». What are we going to do, take it back? I do not think so. So, I believe that once you have the necessary weapons, if the situation allows it, you will be able to use them as you deem appropriate.

What do you think should be the first target if we get the green light from Washington?

Airfields from which they launch those drones at your cities, and where they base their fighters and reconnaissance planes - that is what I would target. I would destroy the airfields and take out as many of their aircraft on the ground as possible. Again, I do not have the same information that your Air Force and government do.

I am confident that right now, they are doing what is best for Ukraine, and in the future, things will only get better

How effective do you think the training of Ukrainian pilots has been, considering that its duration had to be shortened to record lengths?

Yes, that is true. It was shortened. But your pilots were not complete novices. They all flew MiGs or Sukhois and were already fighter pilots. So, it is just a matter of teaching them to operate a new aircraft, learn new tactics and adapt to new equipment. The F-16 is very different from the aircraft they have flown before, but they were more than capable of mastering it.

I believe they were very impressed with the capabilities of the F-16, and they approached it with great enthusiasm and were very pleased to be learning to fly it. And from everything I have heard from my colleagues who trained your pilots, they handled the task very well.

Was the prior experience of flying MiGs or Sukhois more of a hindrance or a helpful skill during training on the F-16?

A bit of both. I have also transitioned from one aircraft to another, and I am sure they had a similar experience. You develop habits from your previous aircraft because all fighters are different. It is not like renting a car. You can not just jump in and fly. They are all different, and you need to learn each one.

And sometimes, especially if you have spent a lot of time on a previous aircraft, you have to unlearn certain habits and develop new ones. So, in that sense, it was a challenge, but no more so than for anyone else. What really helped them is that they are used to flying at speeds of 400 or 500 miles per hour (643 to 804 kilometres per hour), thanks to their previous experience.

They are accustomed to thinking very quickly and operating a jet aircraft. So, these are all good qualities that carry over from one aircraft to another

Can you share how the F-16 has performed in other wars or against similar adversaries in the past?

I participated in both Gulf Wars (the armed conflict from 1990 to 1991, where Iraq faced a coalition led by the United States. - Author), and while those were not Russians, they were using Russian equipment and were trained by Russians. In both cases, after the first 24 to 36 hours, the enemy air force stopped taking to the skies and engaging with us because those who did never made it back home.

I do not take them lightly. I do not underestimate them, but I do not overestimate them either. They have very significant weaknesses, and we are aware of them. We have the tactics and weapons that we have passed on to your pilots to be able to combat them quite effectively.

If you compare all the weapons for the F-16 that have been provided or promised to us with the best Russian weaponry, who would have the advantage, in your opinion?

The F-16 has the edge. It has a much better radar and can deploy a wider array of weapons that we have, much more effectively than the Russians can. So, I am confident that your pilots have been trained on all of this. They know the systems, they know the weapons, and I am sure they will use them correctly. And Ukraine will be proud of them.

‍In 2022, Russia employed S-300 missile systems to strike ground targets in Ukraine. Now, Russian arms manufacturers have once again upgraded this surface-to-air missile defence system for ground offensive operations. Among your achievements is the destruction of 21 such installations. Ukrainian forces may also need to target Russian air defence systems from the sky. What are the biggest challenges in such operations?

This is a very complex question. The mission of hunting down and destroying surface-to-air missile systems is the most dangerous in any air force, in any theatre of operations. It is far more risky than close air combat or shooting down enemy fighters in the air.

The Russians, to their credit, have always had good systems, and they have many of them. One of the primary challenges in any of these situations is pinpointing their exact location. We have assets in space and other places that can locate them.

I hope that all this information will be passed on to the Ukrainian Air Force so they can use it to do what needs to be done to eliminate these air defence systems.

This project is co-funded by the Polish-American Freedom Foundation as part of the «Support Ukraine» program, implemented by the «Education for Democracy» Foundation

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