War in Ukraine

In 2024, Russia significantly expanded the network of «re-education camps» and increased the militarisation and indoctrination of abducted Ukrainian children. Each of these children, upon returning home, requires rehabilitation - receiving a complex of various forms of assistance. How many Ukrainian children were actually abducted by Russia, what they are taught in the «re-education camps», and what are the prospects for the return of deported Ukrainians - discussed in an interview with Olena Rozvadovska, the founder and head of «Voices of Children» Charitable Foundation.

Nataliia Zhukovska: On October 2nd, seven children aged between 3 and 14 were returned to Ukrainian-controlled territory. All of them were from the Kherson and Crimea regions. This was reported by the head of the Save Ukraine organisation, Mykola Kuleba. And at the end of September, according to the ombudsman Dmytro Lubinets, nine children were also returned home. How many Ukrainian children in total have been abducted by Russia?

‍Olena Rozvadovska: According to open sources, Russia has deported over 700 thousand people. The official figure from the Ukrainian authorities is around 20 thousand children. This is the number we rely on. However, it is impossible to state the exact number. Since the war continues, there might be one number of children today and another tomorrow. We also do not have access to the occupied territories or Russian territory.

What happens to Ukrainian children in Russia?

Recently, together with the public association «Ukrainian Network for Children's Rights», the NGO «Regional Human Rights Centre» prepared a report based on specific cases. Our part focused on children's psychological support and rehabilitation after their return. Speaking generally about what happens, according to the children, the scenarios vary.

In some cases, there is group deportation, and they are placed in various child-like camps in Crimea or on the territory of Russia and Belarus. It is known that in the occupied territories of Ukraine, processes are underway to deprive parents of their parental rights according to Russian legislation

Children can be taken under the pretext of so-called threats to life or health without further clarification. Afterwards, they can be placed in foster families. All of this is undoubtedly illegal and constitutes a war crime, which the Ukrainian side is documenting.

How does the process of «liberating» Ukrainian children take place?

Our foundation «Voices of Children» is not involved in the return of children. In fact, each case is individual. There is no return mechanism, just as there is no mechanism for prisoners of war. Generally, the official sides cannot agree on the return of a certain number of children home. This is not that type of case. Russia does not recognise the fact that these are abducted or deported children. According to the Russians, they are rescuing them from shelling. For them, this is a «humanitarian mission». We, however, understand that this is abduction, forced deportation and russification of the nation on RF territory.

As of today, it is the relatives of the child who is in Russia that go to retrieve them. Volunteers who work in coordination with the Ministry of Integration, the President's Office, the Ombudsman, and others assist them in their logistics. That is, the relatives themselves search for those children.

What is the greatest difficulty?

The greatest difficulty is that any person who goes to Russia for the child is in a high-risk zone. There is a chance that they may not return with the child because they could be detained. Moreover, the process always involves humiliating and difficult filtration procedures and an extensive number of various checks. The return process may take several weeks or even months. In one case documented in our report, a grandmother was ready to travel to Russia to get her granddaughter. The return of the child lasted 14 months. The woman faced 18-hour interrogations at the Russian border and threats. Russia hindered the process in every way possible. To delay the child’s exit from Russia, the grandmother was made part of a criminal case. The family was only reunited after a second attempt, and only after the girl’s mother reported the obstacles faced in returning the child at a UN Security Council meeting.

The logistics are also challenging. Typically, the journey to the occupied territories or Russia involves passing through several European countries

The difficulty lies in locating, verifying, and finding these children. It is all very monotonous and complex work. According to official statistics published on the «Children of War» website, 388 children have been returned to date. As you can see, the figure is not even in the thousands. The complexity lies in the fact that there is no organised return of, for example, an entire group of children from an institutional-type facility that was taken. However, the greatest difficulty is the time we lose every day. Children who were taken at 2,5 years of age are now 5,5 years old. They may not remember what happened to them. Moreover, for the child, this is already a trauma. The longer they remain in isolation and subjected to active brainwashing, the harder it becomes to bring them back. And we understand that this is exactly what Russia is doing.

And of course, when children end up in Russian families and are adopted, these cases are even more difficult. Imagine yourself as a little three-year-old girl. You are brought into a family, and you adapt. At that age, it does not matter where the child lives because they do not understand the situation they have ended up in. They simply live.

In your recent report, you mentioned over 5500 clubs of military-patriotic education and hundreds of «re-education camps» operating in Russia and Belarus. How exactly are Ukrainian children re-educated there? How does indoctrination occur?

This research was conducted by the Regional Human Rights Centre. Their specialists describe the patriotism lessons that the children go through. In the curriculum approved by the Russian Ministry of Education, Ukraine is not depicted as an independent and united state. According to our colleagues’ research, propaganda narratives are embedded not only in textbooks but are also imposed during extracurricular but mandatory classes such as «Conversations About Important Matters» and «Lessons of Courage». The «cadet and Cossack classes» operate within schools, aimed at preparing students for military service.

One manifestation of political indoctrination is the activities of so-called patriotic and military-patriotic movements

In Russia, so-called «re-education camps» also operate. Russia spares no expense on their operation. They are very professional in their information warfare. This machine is in full motion at every level. Every teacher, adult, and school administrator knows where to get the «correct» information that needs to be conveyed to the children. And even if someone turns on the television, they will find confirmation of everything they have already been told. In these camps, there is a system of so-called patriotic education. They introduce children to their «heroes», teach them, and sing the Russian anthem. In doing so, they erase national self-identity. The Russians' goal is to make Ukrainian children see themselves as part of the Russian people.

What methods does Russia use on Ukrainian children to make them literally forget that they are Ukrainians?

It is primarily about psychological and moral pressure. Our psychologist, who worked with a boy who was returned to Ukraine, also spoke about how he endured physical abuse and torture. I know that human rights defenders are recording even more severe and horrific cases. The hardest situation in Russia is for those children who openly demonstrate their pro-Ukrainian stance. They are constantly subjected to moral pressure and intimidation. The Russians calculated that the children would break. They were constantly told: «No one cares about you, no one will come for you. You have been forgotten. If you return, you will be recognised as collaborators or as those who worked with Russia and will be sent to prison». The children, not knowing whether it was true or not, thought: «Maybe I really will be imprisoned for being in Russia?». Any scary thought can take root in a stressed mind.

Freedom House, together with ZMINA. The Centre for Human Rights and the Regional Centre for Human Rights presented new evidence to the International Court regarding the direct involvement of the Lukashenko regime in the displacement, political indoctrination, and militarisation of education for over 2200 children from occupied Ukrainian territories. How can this evidence contribute to the return of Ukrainian children?

Firstly, it is about documenting violations. Cases in The Hague can take decades to review. Despite this, someone must continue documenting these violations. It is also about increasing international pressure. If no one speaks about this, documents it, or submits it, it may seem like the problem is resolved, and there are no issues. This needs to remain in the public domain and be discussed at various levels.

Of course, we would all like for this to be resolved in one day, and for Russia to be excluded even from the UN. However, we understand that it cannot be done so quickly

I believe that it is absolutely the right path for both state authorities and public organisations to continue working on documenting, collecting violations, and passing them on to the relevant institutions. As a result of documented violations, arrest warrants have been issued for Putin and Lvova-Belova. I am confident that Russian sanctions will only intensify. It is important not to grow tired of this work. Every Ukrainian, at their own level, must shout about the genocide that Russia is committing in today's world, right in the heart of Europe.

What is Ukraine doing to ensure that Russia is held accountable under international law for the abduction and illegal adoption of Ukrainian children?

Ukraine is doing everything within its power. International coalitions for the return of children are being created. International groups of prosecutors and investigators are working to document information on violations. Ukraine is regularly represented on various international platforms.

A wide range of measures are being taken to hold Russia accountable for its crimes - and not only those concerning children. It is unfortunate that these processes are not as swift as we would like them to be.

Your foundation, «Voices of Children», has been active since 2015. How have these «voices» changed since Russia's full-scale invasion?

Since 2015, I have been working as a volunteer with children in the east of the country along the entire frontline, and in 2019, we officially registered as a foundation. There have been many changes over nearly 10 years. In 2015, I was alone, but now our team consists of 220 people. The difference is that in 2015, the war was confined to two regions, but today it spans the entire country. Another change is that as of 2019, we had between 50 and 100 children under our care in various frontline locations and just one psychological support programme. It was very localised and targeted work. We travelled to remote villages where buses did not go. After 24 February 2022, when drones and missiles began flying across the whole of Ukraine, the format of our work changed drastically. The frontline today is more intense and much larger in scale.

Today, our centres are located in the largest cities along the frontline - from Chernihiv to Kharkiv, Zaporizhzhia, Dnipro, Kryvyi Rih, and Mykolaiv. It is not easy to work there due to the constant shelling. However, the children living there need socialisation. Their schooling is online, and they do not go anywhere - so our sessions are a small escape for them. War, whether large or small, always impacts children.

Why do parents return with their children to areas under shelling despite the danger?

It is hard to understand, but that is how it is. Everyone has their own story. You cannot say that all people have lost their minds about returning to dangerous cities and villages. That is not true! Sane, healthy, and thoughtful people are returning. The reasons vary greatly. Many simply could not settle elsewhere. People leave, spend all their money on renting accommodation, fail to find work, and return. This is the reality for many families. Some remain or return to dangerous regions because they have bedridden parents they cannot leave behind. That is why I never judge these people, although I am convinced that it is wrong to remain under shelling, especially with children.

How do you work with parents who refuse to evacuate with their children from dangerous zones?

It is a difficult process. If adults do not want to leave the area, they simply sign a refusal to evacuate. Parents bear primary responsibility for their children. Often, they refuse out of fear. Here, the state has not done enough to ensure that everyone has a clear understanding of where these people are going. They need to have at least some certainty in emergency situations. There is another group of parents who simply abuse their position and manipulate their children. Generally, these are the adults who do not take care of their children and are not interested in saving their mental health and lives. The state mechanisms must also work in these cases.

These children need to be removed. This is the job of social services, but it is not easy for them to work on the frontline. Many factors have come together to create the situation as it stands

I remember one story where we moved a family with three children from a frontline village and bought them a house in a rear area. A year later, they returned to their village. In this situation, there was nothing we could do because we do not have the right to remove children from their families.

What is the current psychological state of the children? Does it differ depending on where they live in Ukraine?

Various factors influence the psychological state of children. Certainly, the place of residence plays a role. There is a difference between living in Uzhhorod and living in Zaporizhzhia. These are two completely different realities. Obviously, the more dangerous the area of residence, the more threatening the situation for their mental health. However, much also depends on the family. A child senses the anxiety of adults. Parents are the window to the outside world for children. It is not just the rockets that scare them during war, but also their mother’s reaction to them. The presence of education, peer groups and opportunities for communication also have an impact on a child's mental health. Children in Kharkiv and Zaporizhzhia suffer greatly. Recently, we gathered children’s dreams in Zaporizhzhia, and one girl wrote: «I want this online schooling to finally end».

Our psychologists report that today, children are more frequently presenting with anxiety and depressive states, especially teenagers. Some children develop enuresis, hand tremors, and sleep disturbances. Others, due to stress or traumatic experiences, may exhibit eating behaviour disorders.

What do you think the state should do to work with children currently abroad, and how should they be brought back?

We understand that in addition to returning children abducted by Russia, we also need to work with those who are currently displaced abroad. Ukraine must be highly interested in ensuring that all working-age people, and not only children, return. For example, we often receive requests for online psychological assistance from parents abroad, as they are looking for Ukrainian-speaking specialists for their children. It is no secret that living abroad was a dream for some, but for many, it is not a fairytale.

A very large number of people dream of returning home. However, urging them to do so now is certainly wrong, as the war continues

For people to return, the economy must function, jobs need to be created, and education must develop. But first and foremost, the war must end with our victory.

Even the country with the best economy in the world cannot function normally when drones hit schools. It is abnormal and wrong. Today, hubs need to be created so that people abroad can still feel connected to Ukraine and remain within the Ukrainian information space. Moreover, we must constantly keep the world's attention focused and, of course, talk about the fact that Ukraine alone cannot counter Russian propaganda and stop such a powerful enemy.

Main photo: AA/ABACA/Abaca/East News

Lyuba Shipovich had been living in the United States since 2008, but after the beginning of the full-scale war, she returned to Ukraine. Lyuba is a co-founder of the «Razom for Ukraine» public organisation, and since 2023, the founder of the «Dignitas» charitable foundation, which takes care of military and veteran projects, including providing the army with UAVs and training drone operators. Last year, Shipovich was listed in the TOP 50 Ukrainian female leaders according to Forbes magazine.

Nataliia Zhukovska: Lyuba, the main area of your work is unmanned technologies: surveillance and combat drones. What is the real situation with military units being provided with UAVs today?

Lyuba Shipovich: It is about technology in general. Apart from unmanned vehicles, there is also software, situation awareness, combat control systems etc. As for the drone supply, the state is now buying them. Yes, not yet in a sufficient amount but they started doing it. However, we still lack the infrastructure for these drones. I am talking about antennas, ground control stations, portable power stations, tablets, 3D printers for explosive components of air-dropping systems. Unfortunately, this whole infrastructure is not funded by the state at all at the moment. The funding comes either from foundations or the units raise the money for this themselves.

The drone does not fly by itself. There also have to be glasses, RCs, antennas, charging devices, tablets, retranslators

What has to be done to ensure there are enough drones on the frontlines?

If we compare 2022, when there were no drones at all, to the situation now, it is significantly better. According to the prime minister, 40 billion hryvnias have been dedicated to purchasing unmanned systems this year. This already is an improvement. But it is not enough. When the President is talking about a million drones, it sounds like a lot. In reality, however, we calculated that such an amount would only be sufficient for three months in today’s frontline and combat intensity. Therefore, a million - is, in essence, a fourth part of the yearly demand.

We are engaged in an intense war, the largest drone war in the world in the history of humanity. Moreover, due to the frequent lack of ammunition, drones often replace artillery. Western countries were not prepared for a large-scale land war. NATO's doctrine is to gain air superiority. However, we are conducting a large-scale land war. Even the combined NATO countries cannot supply it with enough ammunition. On one hand, they lack the capacity, on the other hand, political and bureaucratic processes are an obstacle. We cannot rely solely on the help of our Western allies.

We must invest in our own production. And what we are doing quite well is primarily the production of unmanned technologies

It is known that Ukraine still depends on China for some components necessary for drone production. And last year, the Chinese already imposed certain export restrictions. How do you assess the risk that at some point they might completely «tighten the screws»?

We need to look for alternatives. China is the cheapest and largest manufacturer, but fortunately, not a monopolist. There are other manufacturers in Central Asian countries. Factories are also being built in Europe and the USA. And, of course, we need to pay enormous attention to localising the production of components. We should produce in Ukraine everything that can be produced here, even if it is more expensive. Because during the war, the cost is not evaluated purely based on the economic factor. There is also the factor of national security. Currently, there are several hundred stable productions in Ukraine. However, very few of them scale up production capacities because they do not have guarantees that orders will be consistent.

The state should enter into medium- to long-term contracts with manufacturers for procurement. If the contract is at least three years, it will be of interest to the manufacturer to invest in their business

This is probably the biggest problem. And if we talk about manufacturers in European countries, they generally want 8- to 10-year contracts. After all, these are capital investments in production lines, expansion of facilities, and so on.

Lyuba, you have been involved in volunteer work since 2014. It was then that the charitable foundation «Razom for Ukraine» was established in the United States. You are one of its co-founders. Since February 24, over the course of a year, you have managed to raise 68 million dollars. How did you achieve that?

Over 60 per cent of the funds came from small donations from people, mostly Americans and Canadians. They contributed 10, 20, 100 dollars to help the Ukrainian army. There were also corporate donations. Up to ten corporations donated 1 million dollars each. These were quite well-known companies worldwide that often wished to remain anonymous. I attribute this level of activity among foreigners to the fact that, at that time, Ukraine was at the top of all the news. It was a natural impulse to help in the fight against injustice.

It is also important to understand the American culture, where volunteerism is instilled from a young age. It is an integral part of life. There are even special days of the year, such as Giving Tuesday, that unite people to help each other. Currently, this support has decreased significantly, partly because Ukraine has disappeared from the news. Last December, I travelled to the United States, where Americans asked me, «Is there still a war going on?» If it is not shown in the news, it seems like it is over. But it is the same as Ukrainians not knowing what is happening in other countries. For example, in December, an important news story was about Venezuela. But if you ask Ukrainians what happened there, many would say, «Where is that?» When something is not in the news, it feels like it does not exist.

Last year, the team that worked on military and veteran projects within «Razom for Ukraine» separated into a new foundation called Dignitas. Why did this happen?

Out of the 68 million dollars that we managed to raise during the first year of the full-scale war, 45 million went to support the military. Specifically, this included the purchase of tactical medicine, drones, radios, power stations and so on. Meanwhile, the organisation also had humanitarian programs. Towards the end of 2022, discussions began about reducing military aid and redirecting more funds towards support and rebuilding efforts. At that time, I was the only board member based in Ukraine - all others were in the United States.

I tried to convey to people that it was still too early to focus on rebuilding Ukraine and that investment in defence was necessary. Because if we do not destroy the Russian tank, it will continue to wipe our cities off the map. Consequently, the rebuilding would become a never-ending process

It was at this stage that certain differences began to emerge. It became increasingly difficult to advocate that the funds were needed specifically for the military. After consulting with my team, we decided to separate into a new foundation, where it is clearly stated in the charter that we are a foundation for technological assistance to the security and defence forces, as well as veterans. We started again with zero dollars in our account.

Who forms the «core» of your team?

All those who had worked with us on military and veteran projects since 2014. The largest initiative, «Victory Drones», is led by Mariya Berlinska. It is an ecosystem for training the military in technology, specifically drone operators for the Armed Forces of Ukraine (AFU), the State Emergency Service of Ukraine (SES), and medical services in cooperation with the General Staff. There is also the «Fierce Birds» project, which supplies strike drones to the front line. It is led by Katya Nesterenko, who had worked for many years in the «Isolation» project and is very knowledgeable and understanding of the Donetsk region.

There is a project called «A Thousand Drones», which primarily focuses on reconnaissance drones. For example, in the United States, we are not allowed to raise funds for strike drones. Therefore, we have split the fundraising efforts: we collect funds for strike drones in Ukraine and for reconnaissance drones abroad.

There is also the «Fly» project, within which military personnel in rehabilitation departments are taught to operate FPV drones. This project is led by Dana Yurovich, who had previously worked for many years with the Ministry of Health team under Ulana Suprun (acting Minister of Health of Ukraine from 2016 to 2019) and on various international projects. In the tenth year of the war, volunteering needs to be professional. Yes, there were periods when everyone was doing everything when tourniquets and drones were bought indiscriminately and without understanding. But in reality, such an approach is an inefficient use of financial resources, which are already quite limited. Everyone should focus on their area of expertise.

For example, everyone knows that they need to buy a Mavic drone. However, not all understand that there is a whole line of them with different characteristics and firmware. As a result, people spend money on the Mavic 3 Classic, which is often unsuitable for use on the frontlines. But if a little more money were added, another drone could be purchased that would definitely be useful. There have even been cases where drones were bought and handed over to the military without being reprogrammed, and without anonymised firmware, they revealed positions. So, sometimes it is not just wasteful, it can be harmful to the military. That is why we do not get involved in other areas. Our focus is on technology.

For a long time, you were involved in advocating for weapons for Ukraine. What was the most challenging part, and did Western politicians always listen to you?

I continue to do this work even now. Our American team regularly communicates with congressmen and attends meetings. This work does not stop. In 2022, it was challenging to convince American politicians that Ukraine would hold out. If you recall that period, what kind of weapons was Ukraine being given? It was Javelins and Stingers - not for waging war, but for guerrilla warfare. Only in May 2022, when it became clear that Ukraine was indeed ready to fight, did they start providing heavier weapons for conventional military operations. So, until the middle of 2022, it was a matter of simply convincing them that we could and would endure, that we did not need to surrender Ukraine along the Dnipro or agree to any peace deals.

We have shown that we are ready to fight. The Western politicians and voters believed in us

What do we need to do to prevent the weakening of support from Europe and the United States?

It seems to me that Ukraine has disappeared from the news in the United States. We are not acting proactively. Look at Russia, which has been developing a network of television channels around the world for over 20 years. They broadcast in different languages - Arabic, Spanish, English, French, German, and others - meaning they generate their own content. In addition, they have a whole series of entertainment programs. They attract viewers' attention with these, and then they broadcast news between them. And what kind of news do the Russians broadcast about Ukraine? The ones that benefit them.

Where does the Western consumer get information about Ukraine? Either from the infrequent news in Western media or from Russian TV channels. We need to pay more attention to the information space and understand that foreign consumers consume information in their own language. Not Ukrainian and not always English. There is a huge Spanish-speaking world that we do not pay attention to, and the Arab world, where we also have very little information. And to gain support in those countries from politicians, we first need to gain it from their voters.

Why are there political bargaining and debates in America right now? Ukraine is a bargaining chip because voters do not have a clear opinion about us. If all voters wanted to support Ukraine, it could be guaranteed that politicians would do the same. Because they listen to their voters, especially in America, where congressional elections are held every two years. It is a relatively short election cycle, so voters are listened to constantly. Moreover, our politicians often use Western media to fight among themselves. And it is important to understand that this does not benefit us either.

When Western consumers see our internal political games, they think the war is over because local politicians are competing with each other

The major goal of the state is Ukraine's accession to NATO. This would be the greatest security guarantee for the country. Do you believe in NATO, where everyone defends each other?

I have spoken with Poles on this topic quite a bit. They are confident that they will be the next target of the Russian Federation. But when you ask them if they would go to defend their country, the response is: «Why would we? We are in NATO, the Americans will come to protect us». That is the classic answer. They do not understand that the primary responsibility is to defend their own country. And this collective NATO agreement is not about sitting back while someone else comes to fight for you. It means that we all defend each other together.

In my opinion, Russia will not go into Poland next, but into the Baltic countries. And I think that Estonians, Latvians, and Lithuanians understand this very well. They also understand that they must rely on their own forces. That is why they are actively preparing

For instance, they are conducting training for the population. When we talk about NATO countries, we think of a strong, powerful army. However, the Alliance does not have experience in conducting land wars. Right now, many of our military personnel are undergoing training abroad, and even NATO generals admit that they can learn more from Ukrainians than vice versa. Because currently, there is only one country in the world that can resist Russia - and that is Ukraine. Only we have the experience of resisting such a powerful aggressor. So if NATO sees Russia as an enemy, they are definitely interested in having Ukraine as, if not a member, at least a strong ally.

Photos from a private archive

One of the most famous American generals, who has been acting as Senior Advisor of the American organisation Human Rights First since 2022, has diagnosed the situation of the West, Russia and Ukraine in the context of the war that has been going on for over two and a half years now in a Times Radio interview during a recent NATO summit.

What Russians are capable of

Hodges believes Russia has little space left for manoeuvring, as it can no longer lead Ukraine out of the war. Russian commanders and politicians with Putin as their leader, not caring about their soldiers, will continue sentencing thousands of others to death and disabilities day by day.

«Although, I do not think this will last infinitely, - the officer assesses. - Their human resources are limited. Even if we do not take the sanctions and their ability to transport oil seriously, I do not know if they will manage to hold on for two more years - also due to the lack of human resources and necessary components».

In the general’s opinion, the West will play a crucial role in accelerating Russia’s collapse if it takes the economic tools that have long been at its disposal seriously

At the moment, Russia is «doing what it can, waiting for us to let go of it and hoping that the potential Trump administration will make life easier for it». And this is approximately everything it can afford right now.

‍Putin: calculations of a bad man

In Hodges's eyes, Putin is a highly intellectual person, though simultaneously evil, merciless and such that does not care for anything but keeping power. His hopes for Trump’s possible victory are well-known: he is hoping that the USA will stop supporting Ukraine and force it to sign a peace treaty on Russian terms. On the other hand, if Biden wins [read as: the Democratic party candidate, as the interview has been taken before the President of the USA withdrew from the presidential race - Edit.], Putin will act by the already familiar plan: continued acts of diversion in Western countries and intensified disinformation that is expected to undermine the trust of the free countries’ citizens in their leaders and democratic institutions.

Biden’s policy: «catching arrows»

Hodges admires Biden’s recent promises to send more anti-aircraft equipment to Ukraine: this is significant support that measures up to the real needs of Ukrainians defending themselves. But this only solves a part of the problem. «Killing the archer is much more effective than catching all the arrows he is shooting, - the general points out. - This support package helps catch more arrows but it does not in any way help kill the archer».

From the officer’s words, the Biden administration continues to impose a «terrible policy», according to which Ukraine can not attack Russian bases in Russia using, for example, the American ATACMS systems. In practice, this policy gives Russia protection for it to commit attacks on Ukrainian cities. Yes, the general is glad to see more «Patriots» and ATGMs but it still is not enough. «I do not know what has to happen for the White House to address supporting Ukraine in defeating Russia seriously. Putin sees that we are not doing everything that is needed. He still has a big buyer of his gas, India, therefore until we start seriously helping Ukraine defeat Russia, Russians will keep on bombing Ukraine», - he warns.

Excessive fear and virtual guarantees

Hodges would like to believe that, as allies and President Zelenskyy himself say, Ukraine’s path into NATO is truly irreversible. «The issue is that there is no movement on this path», - he says. Many politicians at the summit in Switzerland contemplated what they could do about it but nothing in this chatter seems to lead to imminent and irreversible decisions. Whose opinion is that? The USA’s and Germany’s, that continue to obstruct this question, being guided by excessive fear of Russia using nuclear weapons. «Until this excessive fear is conquered, nothing will change for the better», - the general says.

- What guarantees can NATO give Ukraine and how can it strike Russia diplomatically if it can not offer Ukrainians membership right now?

Although Hodges does not imply it directly, it can be understood from his words that in this situation - there are none. As there is no 100 per cent confidence that Ukraine will join NATO. Considering that the Budapest Memorandum of 1994 [in which the USA, Great Britain and Russia guaranteed Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity in exchange for it becoming a non-nuclear-weapon state - Edit.] turned out to be an empty obligation - Hodges is not sure that the next similar commitments will be more trustworthy.

If the West fails again

The general puts all his hope into the understanding of many countries that Ukraine can not lose, that it has to win because its defeat would be a catastrophe for the whole Europe and therefore for the world as well. Because if it were to happen, the following millions of Ukrainian refugees would end up in Poland and Germany, and tens of thousands of Ukrainian soldiers would be forcefully enlisted in the Russian army, increasing its potential.

If the USA fails - be it because of a new party in power (Trump’s party) or any other reason, fails because of not having done what is needed, - the threat to Europe would not diminish but increase

In any case, it would not be surprising if the USA and more - the so-called collective West, do not live up to the expectations. In the last decade, both failed many times. «In 2008, when Russia invaded Georgia, we did nothing. The same way, when Russians crossed the lines drawn by President Obama in Syria and when they invaded Ukraine in 2014», - Hodges points out. It is not unnatural that in 2021 preparing the invasion, and in 2022 performing it, Putin assumed that the West’s anger would not amount to anything once again.

‍Reanimate the deterrence

‍The American also lists some other shocking signs of the West’s weakness that convinced Putin he was right: the Trumpist attack on Capitol Hill on January 6th 2021, the chaotic extraction of American troops from Afghanistan, Germany’s inability to stop the construction of «Nord Stream-2» despite the Russian annexation of Crimea and a significant portion of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions, President Macron’s statements about the «NATO’s brain death».

«You can imagine that amid all this the Kremlin thought: «Let’s finish this», - Hodges comments.

The war in Ukraine broke out because the deterrence failed. Therefore, it should be renewed because the world is an interconnected system. The USA’s economic flourishing, the USA President’s advisor on human rights points out, depends on the flourishing of Europe, and it is impossible if the Old Continent lacks stability and security.

«If we help Ukraine defeat Russia, this will enable us to isolate Iran, and then North Korea, which will, subsequently, deter China. Because the Chinese will see that the West has political will, industrial potential and military capabilities», - Hodges states. The defeat of Russia also is the West’s only serious protection from isolationist Trump’s coming to power.And if Ukraine does lose, the danger of China coming to «scary decisions» will rise swiftly.

‍When Putin falls from the cliff

‍How soon the Russians reach the turning point of this war and for how long Putin will keep in power depends on the dictator’s closest associates. Because he only answers to them - the oligarchs and the closest Kremlin members, not the parliament, voters or journalists who ask uncomfortable questions on behalf of those voters, as it is in any normal country. So when these people understand that there is no longer a chance for Russia to win, they will «push Putin off of a cliff and dispose of him».

Yes, the Kremlin dictator has no serious reasons to believe he will lose yet. But the day he does will be the beginning of his end

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Translation: Anastasiya Kanarska

They became the voice of Ukraine in the first hours of a full-scale invasion. Ukrainian PR people were the first to tell the world the whole truth about the events in the country and opposed Russian IPSO and propaganda. Their speeches and publications have had and have millions of coverage around the world. And the most authoritative international publications prepare materials according to PR Army employees. A real army of Ukrainian PR men has defeated Russia in the information war, but the struggle continues. Our conversation with the co-founder of PR Army, which has become the unofficial press center of Ukraine in the world.

Yuliia Petrik, head of PR software development company MacPaw, became the only Ukrainian to be shortlisted for the Future is Female award from Advertising Week and Warner Bros Discovery. Talented women who have a significant impact on the global advertising industry are nominated for this award. She is also the co-founder of Tech PR School, an educational project for food companies and startups that trains them to work with Western media.

‍What challenges were faced by Ukrainian PR agents at the beginning of the war?

This was the initiative of the first hours of the war. We met in my education chat (I taught international PR) and I had a personal chat with my alumni. And when we all woke up to the new reality that split our lives into “before” and “after”, we were in a state of shock. In those first hours it was necessary to recover, understand whether to leave or stay, because I also have a child. The company in which I worked did not hide its Ukrainian origin, but had a wide international audience. We wrote a statement to our partners that we had started a war. Just a few seconds later, we were flooded with requests to comment on what was happening in the country.

In this work chat, one of my graduates said, “And let's do something then to tell the world the truth about war!”

It was the time of PR people. After all, we all had international media contacts. Then we formed a separate chat where we started this work. When I remember this cognitive load of the first hours, I generally wonder how we survived, because in addition to the flow of news from Ukraine: “what is there in Gostomel?”, “how are the Russian troops advancing?”, “what are the traffic jams on the borders, where people have been standing for days?”, in that chat we still began to exchange requests from journalists who could not find information anywhere from eyewitnesses, those at the epicenter of the war. We have been.

The Ukrainian Foreign Ministry was too busy in those days to work with so many foreign journalists at the same time. This is how our PR Army initiative was born. We streamed the war in online chats for international media from the first hours of the war.

That is, have you involuntarily become such a press center of Ukraine in the world?

This is a very accurate comparison, by the way, because we coordinated the work. We did not take responsibility to comment on important things, but we did find experts and eyewitnesses who commented on it for international journalists. Over time, we have already formed a large base of hundreds of speakers, as they could comment on everything that was happening in Ukraine in various spheres: from the destruction of Ukrainian agriculture to the threat of a nuclear disaster due to the Russian occupation of the Zaporizhzhya nuclear power plant.

I will allow myself to recall a few fat Russian fakes in the first weeks of the invasion, when my friend, a journalist from the Italian Associated Press, having only me in Ukraine, wrote to me via messenger: Is it true that Zelensky has already fled the country and Kiev has been left by the central authorities? I wrote back to her: Of course not! And even accused her of working on Russia. Of course, I wasn't right. She was embarrassed and apologized for not working for Russia. And then I understood the catastrophe of the information vacuum in which the world found itself regarding the events in Ukraine, and how much Russia was already paving its way into the heads of Europeans and preparing them that Ukraine would fall... Did you have such requests?

We realized then that there is a hunger for news from Ukraine on the one hand, and there is a big powerful Russian propaganda machine in the world on the other. And when a journalist came after the seizure of the Zaporizhzhya nuclear power plant and said that he was preparing material on the comments of IAEA experts, and we know that the IAEA is an organization that is generously funded by Russia, they decided to break the plans of this journalist. When the Russians seized the nuclear power plant, a representative of the IAEA arrived, pretending not to know where the shelling of the nuclear power plant was coming from.

We convened an international press conference: we found engineers, energy engineers who could comment to the world media, what is happening at the NPP and what consequences it may have. It was also dangerous for the experts, because we know that those workers who remained at the station and could comment on something immediately disappeared: the Russians took them captive and for interrogation. Therefore, we understood the danger and attracted experts who at that time were no longer on the territory of Energodar.

The second such story was about Mariupol. We had a huge amount of inquiries from the media about what was going on there. And when the first people got out of the blockaded Mariupol and were safe, we organized meetings with international journalists. Our idea was not to offer ready-made narratives, but to hear what people who have experienced all this horror tell us.

And then the world talked about the fatigue of the war in Ukraine and the war in the Gaza Strip began, and how was it possible to keep the focus on the events in Ukraine every day?

At the beginning of the invasion, there were hundreds of volunteers in our chat: journalists, designers, producers, authors of articles. Several hundred volunteers helped us search for witnesses of Russian crimes in the most remote frontline villages

And now, we see great fatigue from the war: both in the international media and in Ukrainians even more so. Because to collect such a large amount of human grief, stress, daily challenges, and even volunteering — it is already becoming impossible. Therefore, I record and see a decline in activity. We now work as such an organizing team, but it is always a question of financing. There are fewer volunteers, and this is the biggest challenge for us. Europe is already preparing for summer vacations, and foreigners are no longer so actively looking for information reasons. Therefore, we give them daily news from Ukraine.

They say that your post in X about Scholz blocking the transfer of arms to Ukraine gained so much spread that he changed his position and eventually... gave Ukraine weapons. Is this true?

It wasn't just our efforts. These efforts are both visible and invisible. Much remains outside of social networks. Great work is done by our diplomats at all levels. This is a great example of teamwork when working at different levels for the sake of a single goal.

What were your work cases then and now? In Ukraine “not a civil war”, “Zelensky did not flee the country”, “Bucha ---- real”, “Ukrainians are not fascists”, “this is not a war between NATO and America”, “Ukraine ---- not an artificial state.” ---- supplement this list of Russian IPSOs, which had to be debunked in the world media?

From time to time it is necessary to conduct educational work with the international media. But I can say that Russia works not only through the media — it is very active in social networks, like, for example, this popular botfarm “Olgin bots”. In them, the distribution of fakes on social networks is very well financed. But what is good for Ukrainians now is the possibilities of artificial intelligence. He disseminates instantaneously casts of certain narratives. We have such projects as “Osavul”, which tracks Russian intakes and gives refutations. For example, such a fake of the Russian IPSO is known, which flooded the network that the EU forces its citizens to eat insects. “Osavul” was very good at finding these chains of origin of fakes, and we refuted this nonsense.

When the Kakhovskaya dam was blown up, Russia tried to spread the information to the world media that the Ukrainians themselves had blown it up. But we already had a ready set of speaker-commentators who spoke the truth about what happened in Kherson and commented on it in the world's media. Among our speakers were deputy ministers, environmentalists, eyewitnesses. For goodness sake, we had the first volunteers to return from there. That is, we are working ahead of time in order to have time to tell the truth faster, while Russia spreads its next lie around the world.

There were a lot of requests when the first winter came with blackouts. There were questions from foreigners, how Ukrainians survive

We were asked to find for interviews a mother who teaches her child remotely or a couple who married during the blackout. The big wave of requests was when hackers hacked Kyivstar. Foreigners saw in this a new kind of hybrid war. Europeans realized that the war is not only on the territory of Ukraine and near the borders of the EU, but that the war can reach the whole world in cyberspace.

We were interested in a request from the authoritative publication Business Insider, when they asked us to find them cats to help close the meeting of the Armed Forces. We joked that something we don't do like that if the cats already have their own PR managers. But we found such cats. And here the journalist collected a list of stories about these animals, how they became popular and which meetings are closed.

Another topic that international journalists are very interested in now is the destruction of cultural heritage in Ukraine. They ask for a list of museums, cities with architectural gems that Russia destroyed with missiles. We have a list of speakers: Ukrainian and foreign experts who comment on this for the world media.

There is also a cool project at the request of NATO, in which a team of historians refutes all Russian false historiography about the supposed common heritage of Kievan Rus for Ukraine and Russia. This team refutes other Russian fakes, which have generously covered the heads of Europeans for decades.

What do you think is the greatest success of the team?

Our most recent successful cases are publications about Ukrainian women scientists for The Independent and an article with a comment by Foreign Minister Oleg Nikolayenko on Russia's actions in the UN Security Council for Express.

Also, Mark Savchuk, one of the co-founders of PR Army, regularly appears on Canadian television and comments on events in Ukraine. It has almost a million views reach

The war showed me the true value of communication. The daughter of a Kharkiv activist who was in Russian captivity wrote to us, and we made a story about him, which was circulated in the world media. Thanks to international publicity, we were able to release him from captivity. Another person whom we managed to rescue from Russian captivity due to international publicity is one of the Ukrainian sailors. This is our best success story.

We know that many well-known European publications in France, Italy and Germany are sponsored by Gazprom. We are aware of the strange statements and policies of the Vatican regarding events in Ukraine. Pope Francis, who called the Russian propagandist Dugin an innocent victim of a crime, said how great Russia and Catherine II is and admires Dostoevsky: and all this “strange love” for Russia and its “so-called culture” ---- it is also not a plowed field. Europeans are not affected by the brutal killings of Ukrainian children and muzzled Ukrainians in Bucha and other cities ---- they further blindly see in Russia some kind of “culture”. The latest example of this “pathological love” is the victory of a pro-Russian film with Russian actors at the Cannes Film Festival. What else should Ukraine do to make the world more transparent?

I myself suffer from these questions to which I have no answer. In the world media, there is now a fashion for “think positive.” Where to get this “think positive” when missiles arrive in our country, children die, people's houses burn.

We need to talk about Russian colonialism. In fact, 42 countries of the world are victims of Russia. These countries were occupied by Russia in different periods of history on four continents of the world: from Africa and the Caucasus to Europe. Here is this informational and historical fact I would raise to a higher level of discussion. We have to say in the international media that Russia is a threat to the world. Say what will happen to the world if Russia wins. We must say that Russia is a dictatorship, a lack of rights and freedoms, it is death, suffering, concentration camps and torture of people. That the world will go into complete darkness if Russia wins. To say that Putin is like Hitler, because it really is. All racism is built on the techniques of fascism.

As soon as the world feels that it affects them directly, then they begin to think differently

Unfortunately, now Ukraine has become a trading coin in the election races in the United States and Europe. We have to convince them that our war is really their war. For it will be like the Sudetenland, who gave to Hitler in exchange for peace, and received the Second World War. Now, if we do not stop Putin, the Third World War could explode.

You compared Putin to Hitler, and I see analogies with Stalin. When people were dying in Ukraine from the Holodomor, The New York Times, Walter Duranty wrote what a “wonderful policy of Stalin” was, and that there was no famine in Ukraine. Gareth Jones, who spoke to the world about the Great Famine, was perceived as crazy. No one wanted to believe him. Now Putin is also being whitewashed, creating from him, despite all the “normal player” in the geopolitical arena. This is done by the likes of Carlson, a number of right-leaning American media outlets. PR that the FSB does ----powerful and cunning. How to convince the world that Putin's Russia ---- is it evil?

A difficult question and I have no answer to it. The only answer is systematic cultural work in the future, because consciousness changes at least in a year. Let's be honest: for how many years, decades, centuries has Russia poured its fake history into the minds of millions? And yet, in one day, even with these terrible photos from Bucha or Mariupol, it is impossible to change your mind. Therefore, there are a lot of challenges. For example, I will be the first woman from Ukraine on the jury at the Cannes Film Festival of Advertising and Creativity. And I will have to judge the advertisements of world brands that did not come out of Russia - Pepsi, for example. And it's amazing how the world has normalized what can't be normalized. Normalized the war. World brands are already disguising themselves, creating subsidiaries under other brands and returning to Russia. And what has changed? We continue to lose territory and people.

And so every Ukrainian who has gone abroad should ask himself the question: what am I doing now to promote Ukrainian culture, Ukrainian authenticity, Ukrainian narratives?

Well... we see so many people speak Russian abroad without realizing that this is also a certain signal.

We have already received the Oscar thanks to Mstislav Chernov, we have our Nobel laureate Oleksandra Matviychuk, we have the absolute boxing world champion Usyk. We have so many victories and achievements that, to a large extent, thanks to these ambassadors of PR Ukraine, we succeeded. Although this PR is very tragic and provoked by such human dramas that we would never want. Further, after our victory, what should be the PR of Ukraine in the world?

We need to open Ukraine to foreigners: to tell what a cool country it is and what it is worth fighting for.

We can say, rotating from the perspective of time, that the PR Army defeated Russia in the information war. What is the scale of PR Army's media front now?

At the beginning of the war, we worked for seven months without any legal registration. And only then the NGO was founded. We had no name or structure at the time.

Today we have a very large base that is of value to the international community. Our project THE UA View works. Every foreign journalist can enter our base and study the stage of the Russian-Ukrainian war that interests him, read the testimonies of witnesses of Russian crimes. We systematized it. We track Russian narratives, monitor them, and counter these discards with information ecology.

On our website, information events of the war are broken down by themes and directions. A separate file is how Russia destroyed Ukrainian grain, a separate file on nuclear safety, a separate file on destroyed cities under occupation. So we created the project Voices of Freedom. It is an online platform where you can get a request from a journalist for an expert in a particular field. For each foreign journalist, at his request, we select the right speaker.

A separate direction is international experts, who are also in the list of Speaker-Ambassadors of Ukraine

We still made checks on these people or were they related to Russia somewhere in their biography. Now we have made a separate direction on the destroyed cultural heritage in Ukraine, and we are attracting international speakers who also comment on these issues for the world media.

Another project, Where Are Our People?, is about the deportation of Ukrainian children. PR Army was the first to raise this topic in the world. We were the first to say that Ukrainian children are being taken to Russia so that the world will hear us. Now we have a team of lawyers in both the States and Europe who are making sure that this topic is not forgotten. We have lists of abducted children. We are doing this project together with the 5th Morning Initiative.

Russian propagandists track your work. The Russian FSB is watching you and at some point saw that you are a danger to the Russian propaganda machine. Russia launched a whole campaign against the PR Army?

We had the following two activities: the first was at the beginning of the war. One American, who clearly works for the Kremlin's salary, made a great deal of material in a very reputable publication that a whole American botfarm operates in Ukraine, that we work according to NATO guidelines. We laughed about it, realized that we were doing everything right and moved on. But later, we were given a screenshot, where Russian propagandist Soloviev wrote about us in his telegram channel. On the one hand, we understand that if Russia is afraid of us, then we do everything successfully, and on the other hand it is dangerous.

I never now indicate in real time where I am for security reasons. I once had a conversation with Mstislav Chernov, our Oscar-winning director, and I ask him: How do you feel about security issues? And he says that in fact, the threat is constantly: both during travel and at performances. We must understand that the enemy is everywhere. The enemy is monitoring. But we must win this war in which even the word has become a weapon. And we will surely win.

Oresta Brit - a volunteer with over a decade of experience, head of the BON Charity Foundation and a former advisor to Valeriy Zaluzhnyy. Before 2014, she studied at the Sorbonne and worked as a runway model in Paris. Returned to Ukraine at the beginning of the Revolution of Dignity. She has 4 degrees, and speaking both English and French, she tells the foreigners all the truth about the bloody war in Ukraine at every opportunity. She worked in crisis management and attracting foreign investments into Ukraine. At the beginning of the war, she left the business and devoted herself completely to aiding the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

Nataliia Zhukovska: Oresta, you have been volunteering for over 10 years now. What do soldiers ask for most often? What does the frontline need the most today?

Oresta Brit: If I were to summarise my activities over the past 10 years, from 2014 to 2016 I was exclusively focused on helping the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Later, the number of requests from them decreased because the state began to take over the process of supplying the military. And, of course, the accompanying needs of the civilian population were also taken into account by us. In general, the charity foundation was a hobby for me in my free time from work and business. Since 2014, we, the volunteers, have become adaptable to changes and challenges and have even learned to anticipate needs. Overall, our work extends to many different areas that we initiated simultaneously at the start of the large-scale war.

We try our best to support the country in its difficult times. We cover «gaps» and needs until all the relevant state institutions get on a military footing and work like clockwork

However, this charitable activity should not reach the point where the state openly leeches on it. After all, we should have already shifted to a military footing a long time ago. The only things preventing this are corruption and unhealthy competition. As for needs, the largest portion of expenses goes towards purchasing electronic warfare equipment and microchips for FPV drones. This is what saves our military on the frontlines. There are constant requests for vehicles - they are expendable items. It must be acknowledged that the Russian army is launching on an industrial scale what we are doing on our knees. And in this, we are indeed losing.

What is the goal and the mission of the BON Charity Foundation that you founded?

Today, we help both the army and the civilian population. The mission of our foundation is to accelerate Ukraine's victory and to begin cultural and educational activities around the world. You know, the Charity Union of the Nation (Благодійне Об’єднання Нації - BON) is like a community. It is not a foundation of a single person. Every volunteer feels their responsibility and knows their sphere of authority.

We give many interviews to foreign media in English and French. We try to instil the correct narratives abroad. We show that this genocide has been going on not for 11 years, but for hundreds of years, and the methodology of exterminating the Ukrainian people is not much different nowadays. It's just that this time we are lucky that the world is becoming globalised and we have the opportunity to call attention to this, among other means, through the internet.

Concepts such as «fatigue» and «burnout» are familiar to many volunteers. Do you manage to avoid them?

Physical and moral fatigue, burnout - all of this is present, but I can not afford to stop because I am doing what inspires me and gives me energy. Charity is the best niche you could possibly preoccupy in modern Ukraine, especially in recent years. As for physiological burnout, it can happen. Therefore, we have a programme within which we send volunteers for health check-ups. But this need exists for civilians even during peaceful times.

As long as we have adrenalin, we hold on. Once the acute phase subsides though, it will be really hard for us

Do you have to visit the frontlines a lot?

Now my trips to the frontline involve solving crisis issues or delivering items not accepted by mail. I travel on my own, without an escort. Only I know where and when I am going.

There was an incident in 2022 when you almost died during a trip to the front. It was near Bakhmut. What happened then?

While I was driving to the military, Russians began to break through on that section of the frontline. As soon as I reached my destination, a close-range battle began - tank and rifle. It was a miracle that I was not shot not only by the Russians but also by our own military. I saw our guys shooting along the road. I asked: «Where should I jump out of the car?». And they shouted: «What do you mean jump out? Just drive away from here». These were assault troops near Bakhmut's industrial area. It took me 20 minutes to return to the city under fire. And then another 40 minutes to drive to Kostiantynivka from there.

Has this situation changed your desire to visit the frontlines?

I am still afraid of thinking about that story. The question of whether or not I should come to the frontline appears in my head every time. If there is no need, I do not go there.

Which stories from your trips to the frontline have been the most memorable to you?

Honestly, nothing surprises or impresses me anymore. My body has switched to self-preservation mode. I've lost so many brothers and sisters-in-arms that I just find joy in everything there is to find joy in. I cherish every meeting, knowing it could be the last.

My body only reacts to joy and positivity. It's some kind of protective function

If you look through my social media, you'll see that I don't share any sad stories there. I confess it is my volunteers who go to the de-occupied territories where there are no intense battles. While I don't let them go to the frontline, they are the ones delivering humanitarian aid to those areas. I have distanced myself from such practices because I know I wouldn't be useful to the affected people. I would just cry and be anxious.

How does your family react to your trips to the frontline? Do they try to dissuade you or support you?

I have absolute support from my family. They are patient and respect everything I do. There is no resistance. My first trip to the frontline was in July 2014. My mother didn't know I had gone. Honestly, I didn't really understand where I was going either. My task was to deliver humanitarian aid to the Aidar unit and the 12th battalion. No one told me it was war. I realised everything when I reached the Luhansk region. I was a little scared, but it was too late.

Previously, you studied in Paris and planned to tie your life to the runway, but you chose volunteering instead. What influenced your decision to drastically change your life?

Let me say right away - there were no sacrifices. I had a great time marching on the runway from 14 to 22 years old. I worked for very prestigious agencies in Paris. However, at 22, I chose education because pursuing a degree at the Sorbonne (a public university in Paris. - Author) and working as a model was an impossible combination. Thanks to my parents, I learned to set priorities correctly.

Moreover, I never planned to become French or to stay in France. You know, everything in my life happens very timely. Studying abroad gave me a quality education and contacts that are now very useful. I am a crisis manager. My profile is in public relations and mediation. Now I am successfully using the knowledge I gained to fight against the aggressor.

I have never regretted returning to Ukraine. Over the years, I have acquired a wonderful new hobby called «charity»

Everyone was surprised why I returned, and no one realised how beautiful this country is, how wonderful our way of life is, and how diverse our regions are. You can go to both the mountains and the sea without leaving Ukraine.

You often communicate with foreigners. What do you try to tell and convey to them? How do they react to what they hear?

We are still losing the information warfare. When communicating with foreign businesses and on a diplomatic level, I try to convey to them the scale of the tragedy we are experiencing. So that everyone not only knows how heroic Ukraine is but also understands from our experience how to avoid this tragedy in their own country. Because this gangrene called Russia will only continue to spread if it is not amputated right now, at these stages.

Everyone must understand that the war is close by, not somewhere far away. Today, Ukrainians are protecting the world from great evil and terror

And this is precisely the message I manage to convey all the way from Washington to the Netherlands and France. I am often invited to various French channels because the French want to hear the opinion of an unbiased Ukrainian who does not belong to any political party.

Did you foresee a full-scale war in the middle of Europe? Where were you when it started?

On February 24, I was in Lithuania, registering our foundation. I immediately bought a car for the Armed Forces and headed towards Ukraine. We didn't know exactly when it would start, but we clearly understood that something was going to happen. And I feel the same now, realising the catastrophe that could happen in Europe. Because, in reality, there is no war in Ukraine; we have a special state of events. I predict the same special state in Europe. It's not about an invasion but about conducting remote military actions, including missile attacks.

You were an advisor to the former Commander-in-Chief of Ukraine, Valerii Zaluzhnyi. How did you assist him without being a military person?

I am a person to whom the tactics of waging war are distant, but I have been closely communicating with the army for quite some time. Over the years, I have gained unprecedented trust among the military. In our times, this is worth its weight in gold. It was my international administrative resources and the unprecedented trust of the army that led the then Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces to the idea that it might be worthwhile to take me on as an advisor. But in fact, these were not pieces of advice from my side. I very rarely communicated with him because I understood the level of his busyness. But at the beginning of the full-scale invasion, he did a very appropriate thing - he connected me with the responsible persons for different areas. And it was with them, side by side, for two years, that we kept our fingers on the pulse, synchronised our efforts and resolved pressing issues. As a result, I reported on our achievements, trips to the front and some weak points to the Commander-in-Chief. So, I was more of a reporter. If the level of the problem that needed to be solved was below the Commander-in-Chief, we did not take it to him. If his help was needed, then, of course, I went to him.

Do you still maintain contact with Valerii Zaluzhnyi?

Yes, of course. I was friends with Valerii Fedorovych, not just with the Commander-in-Chief. I am acquainted with his wife and have great respect and affection for the couple. Olena is a very worthy woman with a sense of dignity. She has stood side by side with her husband throughout the full-scale war. She is a true general's wife. I wouldn't wish on anyone the things they have gone through during this time. The level of responsibility and both psychological and physical stress they have endured is something not everyone can withstand.

How has the war changed you?

I wouldn't say the war has changed me. Maybe it has revealed my resilience. I can't say that I have flourished over these two years. The war has definitely taken a physical and psychological toll on all of us. Unlike myself, I feel sorry for those who had an awakening, who had to break themselves one morning. Those who used to love the Russians but now fiercely hate them. Because hatred is a feeling that destroys. I have never compared Ukrainians and Russians. They have always been a completely foreign nation to me.

I was born in 1990, and my conscious life has been spent in a whole, independent Ukraine. I am not ready to change that

What do you think we should prepare for? How long will the war last?

You know, we are prone to forgetfulness. We will begin to forget what is happening today, and it must not be allowed. Today's events should be etched in memory of many generations. We must write history correctly, monitor it, and ensure that heroism is not attributed to those who do not deserve it. We must do everything to ensure that Russians, on a genetic level, understand that Ukraine is a taboo territory, better left untouched. We must end this war ourselves. I don't want my children and grandchildren to experience anything like this.

I don't want to live in constant anticipation of our neighbour attacking us again. We must change this

Have you thought about the future? Do you plan to live abroad, where you successfully established yourself at one time, or in Ukraine?

I can live anywhere. The main thing for me is that there is order in Ukraine. Today, I cannot leave Ukraine for long periods of time. My maximum is two weeks. Last year, I went to the sea just to get some sleep, and after two weeks, I was literally running back. I want my children to see the world and feel at home everywhere. So, I don't think I will limit myself to just Ukraine. I have a rather international family, and wherever it is warm and nice, that's where I will be. But all this will only be after our victory.

How would you like to see Ukraine after the war ends?

I would like to see Ukraine with an idea, self-identification and without an inferiority complex. I would like it to be Ukrainian-speaking, with a decent level of education, and not a victim of populism. In other words, just like in all civilised countries, we shouldn't bother ourselves with questions like who our ministers are and where they are vacationing. I truly want to see Ukraine as civilised and accomplished. We have prosperous resources, and I would like to see them utilised. And I want this right of utilisation to be in the hands of Ukrainians, not those who are now, in these difficult times, trying to come in and seize a monopoly. I am confident that most Ukrainians will return home, and Ukraine will once again become a prosperous, peaceful state. But this will take time. Today, we need to unite and help the country not only to endure but to win.