Culture

Joanna Mosiej: You have said that your greatest dream is for the world to wake up and for us to have a future. Are we truly at the point of the Weimar Republic's decline? Is there no hope or way back for us? Must history repeat itself?

Agnieszka Holland: I fear it will be difficult to turn back from this path unless there is genuine will. Of course, hope dies last, but it must be a collective hope, not just that of individuals. At present, those who determine our fate lack both ideas and will. And they lack courage. At the moment, all right-liberal-centrist governments are decisively shifting towards reactivity in the face of what they perceive as an inevitable wave of brown populism. When nothing but even greater populism stands against this wave, the game of world destiny cannot be won. At least, not in the coming decade. At the same time, I do not see the diligence, determination or charisma that could persuade people that certain values are worth fighting for. This applies to all dimensions - in the way Ukrainians are fighting and in the way they forgo certain comforts for the sake of a better future and the expansion of rights for others.

At the same time, more and more people who were previously engaged are retreating into internal exile due to fatigue, disappointment and loss of hope.

Yes, they are withdrawing into a kind of oblivion and passivity, which is why the crisis of hope seems to me the deepest and most dangerous crisis. It manifests in many ways, such as the reluctance to have children in wealthier countries, which stems precisely from a lack of hope, from a lack of belief that the future has meaning. That it is good enough to project oneself into. And such immense disappointment, a sense of meaninglessness, and the desire to remove young or sensitive, idealistic people from politics - this is a phenomenon that is deadly dangerous to any attempt to preserve democracy.

We are also living in such a sombre time. In one way or another, what is happening in Poland is, to some extent, a reflection of what is happening in the world. What Donald Trump is doing, how quickly various authoritarian regimes are rising - it is all so bleak. One can react to this with fatalism, succumb to it and try to go with the flow, as most of the political class is doing.

This is an approach of peculiar, narcissistic selfishness that politicians like Donald Trump are very attuned to. They build upon it. They give hope to those who are so uncritical that they mistake any glitter for gold and are very easily tempted. They are not equipped with the tools of elementary criticism to resist modern means of communication.

In the era of the internet revolution, artificial intelligence, and social media with their algorithms, manipulating public opinion is trivially easy and hellishly effective

These monsters have absolutely incredible tools at their disposal. This is a great failing of the entire education system, as well as the media, which have succumbed so much to the pressure of clickability that they have essentially ceased to be an authority for anyone.

I have the impression that Ukraine's tragedy also lies in its attempt to join a world that no longer exists - the world of liberal democracy, human rights, and the rule of law. A world that is melting away like precious ore.

To some extent, that is exactly the case. Donald Trump's recent actions, particularly the freezing of USAID funds, directly harm their means of existence. They take away hope not only for a better future but even for the present. These funds financed the work of many NGOs and provided concrete humanitarian aid. Replacing these funds will be difficult. That is why we must rebuild independent NGOs and media on some other foundation. It will be a tremendous effort because the money is mostly on the side which all millionaires and great technologists belong to.

Trump and his surrogates, like some sort of sorcerer's apprentice, can be astonishingly effective precisely because they have no restraints. Until now, we were accustomed to the idea that there are certain rules and boundaries that must not be crossed.

We are undoubtedly on the defensive.

How will this end?

I think we more or less know. It will end in some kind of apocalyptic catastrophe, after which we will, hopefully, find our way home again

If we survive, we will return to some sense of meaning, but for now, things do not look very good.

How then can we provide hope?

I can only express my astonishment, because, to be honest, offering hope in a situation where I do not know where to find it would be highly irresponsible.

You are the conscience of Polish cinema, but whom would you consider a hero of our time - a kind of Citizen Jones?

Citizen Jones, the brave whistleblower, has always been my hero. Activists are also heroes - those who go against the tide, who are always guided by the most fundamental values. For me, they are the heroes of our time. It is difficult for them because they are a great minority. Just as there was a great minority of democratic opposition in communist countries, or as there was a great minority of early Christians. But I believe that this world is constantly being rebuilt, and that with each such upheaval, these liberties expand. Therefore, I hope that it will happen now as well.

In your film «Europa, Europa», there is a surreal scene in which Hitler dances in the arms of Stalin. I think today you could create a similar scene where Putin dances with…

Well, yes, I think you could form quite a large circle of dancing, deranged authoritarian narcissists who disregard any values other than their own immediate and grand victories.

«Europa, Europa», which was in a way a warning, becomes relevant again, as do all films or stories in moments like these, when it is about what happens to a person faced with the simplest choice - to save themselves.

And everything else ceases to matter.

We filmed it in 1989, and it appeared in cinemas at the turn of 1990-91. It was a time of great hopes, of great changes in our part of Europe. I was often asked why the double title. I replied that I was intrigued by Europe's duality, a kind of dichotomy reflected in the fate of the boy - the film's main character.

On one hand, Europe is the cradle of the greatest values - democracy, human rights, equality, fraternity, solidarity, and great culture. On the other hand, it is the cradle of the greatest crimes against humanity and the utmost cruelty

That is the duality. And now, once again, it is beginning to lean towards its dark side. We are entering darkness, and for now, there is no light at the end of the tunnel. But that does not mean we should not move towards that light.

We need to form a coalition against what is happening. We need to encourage those who resist. There are still many people of goodwill, and it is on their resistance that we must build the future.

At last, some hope.

And to my Ukrainian friends and acquaintances, I would like to say that light will appear. For now, we see darkness around us and feel as though there is no light at all. But that light exists. It is within us. We are the bearers of that light, and those fighting in Ukraine are, more than anyone, the bearers of that light. There are many forces around that wish to extinguish this light. We must protect them. All I can express is my admiration for their strength and solidarity.

Thank you very much. That was beautifully said. Lately, we have been telling ourselves that hope lies within us. Because when it seems there is nowhere else to find it, we must seek it within ourselves.

Exactly, you are right. That is precisely what I wanted to say - that the light, or hope, is within us.

Olesia Trofymenko blends painting techniques with ancient Ukrainian embroidery. In March 2022, during the peak of the war, Dior approached Olesia to create decorations for their collection show. However, this collaboration went beyond simple set design. The world of high fashion sought to see and hear Ukraine in its unique, authentic form. The central theme of Dior's collection became the «Tree of Life» - a key element from traditional embroidered towels of the Chernihiv region.

The «Tree of Life» symbolises the triumph of light over darkness. In the first few days of Olesia Trofymenko’s exhibition at the Rodin Museum in Paris, more than 10 thousand visitors attended - an impressive turnout, according to Dior’s PR team, and a rare occurrence. Sestry spoke with Olesia about her collaboration with the globally renowned brand, how she reached European officials and millionaires, and the high-level artistry of Ukrainian embroidery.

Embroidered symbol of life’s victory over death captivated Dior's creative director

Yaryna Matviiv: Is it true that the news about collaborating with Dior caught you off guard while you were in the garden?

Olesia Trofymenko: That is exactly what happened. In some ways, I was lucky because, during the invasion, I was far from Kyiv, in a village. But emotionally, it was very difficult - panic attacks would not leave me alone. On the fourth day of the war, I went out to plant a garden. It was my psychological protest against death and all the horrors Russia was causing. It was my personal war to claim the right to plant flowers and gardens on my land, in defiance of the machinery of death.

By the way, in Kyiv, it is quite noticeable: flowerbeds, which were usually overrun with weeds, are now planted with flowers. When I spoke with my neighbours, they had the same impulse - to urgently fill this wounded earth with beauty.

It was during this time that I received a call from the curator of an exhibition we had done back in 2014. At that time, Benetton held an annual exhibition inviting a hundred artists from different countries to paint on 10/15 centimetre canvases - challenging but interesting work. With the start of the full-scale invasion, it was decided to repeat this exhibition in Rome.

Back in 2014, I managed to embroider a fragment on that tiny canvas because I had just invented my painting-embroidery technique. Now, I was eager to explore this technique on a larger scale. My work caught the eye of Dior's creative director, Maria Grazia Chiuri. She approached the curator about doing a joint exhibition with me. It was so unexpected!

I was standing in the garden and asked again on the phone: «Which Dior?»

The exhibition curator, Solomiya Savchuk, added that I would have 200 people working for me. I thought she meant 200 Ukrainian artists would help with the decorations. But no. «You will have 200 Indian embroiderers from Mumbai working for you», Solomiya said. In reality, there turned out to be twice as many.

It took 470 seamstresses three weeks (!) to embroider 32 of my works for Dior shows

Interestingly, this was the first Indian school where women were allowed to embroider and earn money from it (in India, traditionally, only men could earn money through embroidery). They beautifully embroidered my canvases in 3D.

- You researched Cossack embroidery from past centuries. These motifs became the face of Dior’s shows. But why did Dior turn to Ukrainian history and art?

- Well, first of all, when they approached me, it was the end of March 2022. The idea resonated because the Dior brand itself was founded after Christian Dior met his sister, who survived a Nazi concentration camp. In protest against the collapse of humanity, he established his high fashion house. It was a victory of aesthetics over destruction.

This is why it was important for them to collaborate with Ukrainian artisans (we had already witnessed Bucha and Irpin by then) - it was their political stance on the events in Ukraine. Full support.

Secondly, I use intricate embroidery techniques.

I try to showcase Ukrainian culture in a way that breaks free from the clichés that Russia has always used to present us to the world - baggy trousers and primitive embroidered shirts. In reality, Cossack embroidery is like a universe! Its aesthetic is comparable to that of Japan

For my Dior sketches, I also drew inspiration from the wedding wreaths of early 20th-century Galicia. These wreaths resemble crowns. However, the most prominent connection between me and Dior is the symbol of the Tree of Life. Dior latched onto this image. As Maria Grazia Chiuri told me, the Tree of Life is a collective symbol across all cultures. All ancient civilisations interpret it as a symbol of life’s triumph over death.

As a result, Maria Grazia completely changed the concept of her collection to incorporate this image. The «Tree of Life» became the leitmotif of the entire Dior show.

- After the Dior shows ended, did the embroidered canvases remain at the Rodin Museum?

- Yes, they hung there for a week, and museum visitors could view them. In just the first four days, 10 thousand people saw my work. The exhibition generated a lot of buzz. We spoke about Ukraine through the language of art.

Afterwards, the canvases became the property of the House of Dior.

- At the start of the war, France and Italy were still influenced by Russian propaganda. But Dior took a stand immediately?

- And that pleasantly surprised me. Maria Grazia’s first words when we met in Paris were: «Olesia, I want to tell you straight away that we are on your side, we do not believe Russian propaganda. We understand where the truth lies».

That was important because when you are abroad, it is hard to know who you can trust. Russian propaganda spends vast amounts of money to spread disinformation about the war in Ukraine.

Artists can be heard better than politicians

- A year ago, we held a screening of the film «Mariupol. Unlost Hope». Let me share the backstory: while I was creating sketches for Dior, our director Maks Lytvynov asked me to draw an illustration for a documentary about Mariupol. He filmed this right after the city was taken. In it, he interviewed women who had survived, and in the pauses between these heavy stories, I drew the city «before» and «after» the catastrophe.

This film was shown in various countries across Europe, and a French volunteer, Stéphane Delma, took an interest. He decided that more screenings should be held in France - on different public platforms.

That is how we ended up in Étretat, a tiny French commune famous for being painted by the Impressionists. The place is so popular that European millionaires have started buying houses there. It was important for us to share the stories of the women from Mariupol with this audience. However, the town’s mayor, who is over 90 years old, did not want to show the film. He said it was all politics and mentioned that he had studied Russian once. Then, things changed, just like in a movie…

The local community of active women insisted on screening the film, and after watching it, the mayor underwent a transformation. He became very sympathetic to us.

A lot of people came to the film screening, and afterwards, they asked us more detailed questions about the situation in Ukraine. Before this, the war had felt like a reality show on TV for many, but we gave them the chance to connect with the real-life experiences Ukrainians are living through. We then shared with them stories about missile attacks and how to hide from bombs and drones.

- So, does culture influence people more powerfully than media or news?

- People who create culture and art can indeed be heard better than politicians. It works.

- What makes Ukraine interesting to the global art community? Have you managed to separate the Ukrainian world from the Russian?

- Slowly, but yes. Many art historians are pushing global museums to change the attribution of works by artists who are Ukrainian, not Russian.

For Europe, we are intriguing because we have preserved a school of realist painting, but we have a different visual language and way of thinking.

We live in an age dominated by images, and we must show the world that we exist and what our culture truly represents. For too long, we were viewed as part of Russian culture, and that is partly our fault - we did not promote ourselves during peacetime. If we remain silent, we will continue to be overlooked.

Bomb explosions made from embroidered peonies

- What are you working on today?

- Right now, all my work is focused on the war in Ukraine. However, I try to address this topic metaphorically to reach a broader audience.

Otto Dix's famous paintings of World War II shocked people - the artists of that time showed the horrors of war with decomposing bodies on the streets. Since then, images of violence have become part of mainstream culture.

In contrast, I aim to «mask» these horrifying realities with beauty in my paintings. Currently, I am working on a series called «Substitution». I cover the wounds of soldiers with lilies and depict explosions using embroidered peonies. By using symbols of undeniable beauty, I hope to draw people in, to make them pause and look closer, and only then realise what the painting is truly about.

This is a uniquely Ukrainian ability - to process pain through beauty, aesthetics and harmony. After all, this is exactly what my neighbours do, creating stunning flower gardens in their courtyards between missile attacks

Our «Tree of Life» will grow through the minefields, taking deep roots of revival amid the ruins of Mariupol...

Photos from heroine’s private archive