Poland has submitted a film about Ukrainians, featuring Ukrainian actors, for the Oscars. The drama «Under the Volcano» by Polish director Damian Kocur explores the transformation of a family from tourists to refugees, due to the full-scale invasion. In this film, which premiered in September at the Toronto International Film Festival, Roman Lutskyi, a well-known actor for Polish audiences, starred. He is known for notable theatrical performances, such as «Hamlet» and «Forefathers' Eve (Dziady)» by Maja Kleczewska. Globally, he gained recognition through his lead role in «Reflection», the first Ukrainian film showcased at the Venice Film Festival. Lutskyi has walked the red carpet at this festival twice, and now, he has an Oscar submission.
«This is my third film about war without combat scenes»
- Damian Kocur once said that we Ukrainians live under a volcano that could erupt at any moment, - said Roman Lutskyi to Sestry. - Under the volcano refers to a neighbouring country, armed to the teeth. In 2014, this «volcano» awakened, and in 2022, it indeed erupted…
- Since «Reflection», you have become a serious dramatic actor. Sometimes, I do not recognise where that cheerful Oleshko Popovich from «The Stronghold» has gone. Your gaze especially has changed. You have also done a drama, «Honeymoon», about a couple's life under occupation, followed by «Under the Volcano» - and everywhere there is war.
- If you have noticed, «Under the Volcano» is already my third war film without combat scenes. People understand what war is like on the front line. But the war within Ukrainian families - Europeans do not see that.
With the onset of the great war, every family had to choose - to stay or to leave. This choice gave birth to numerous conflicts. Even in my family, we argued, deciding what to do next. War provokes micro-wars - within small family universes. It is not just about the combat scenes shown on television.
- And it is precisely about such a war that you tell in each of your films. You are not running on screen with a gun, but you reveal to the world the internal drama Ukrainians go through.
- Yes, this is not action, it is subtler, and that is interesting for me as an actor.
«The director did not want to cast me because of my… «actorly» beard»
- Tell us, how did you end up in the film «Under the Volcano» and why director Damian Kocur chose you for the leading male role?
- Oh, it was quite a story. Kocur, a Polish director, is not very familiar with the Ukrainian acting market, so he asked the casting director to gather a list of Ukrainian actors for him. I was on the list, but the director initially dismissed me. As I later learned, Damian said that Roman Lutskyi was too handsome, with that overly actorly beard, and he wanted regular, ordinary people.
I was unaware of this until a friend asked me to help her record a self-tape, also for Kocur - just to stand behind the camera and argue with her on screen, and we did it. Damian saw the footage and asked who was that person behind the camera arguing so convincingly - saying he wanted the guy behind the camera. I was invited for an interview, and based on that, I was cast in one of the main roles.
- Why did Poland choose to submit the film «Under the Volcano» for the Oscars? It is not about Poles, it is about Ukrainians, and Ukrainians perform in it.
- Perhaps they saw that this particular film is competitive on the international stage and could resonate more strongly than local stories in the context of current events.
It also advocates for Ukraine. We often hear that people are tired of Ukrainians and their war, but it turns out that not everyone feels that way. The world needs to be constantly reminded of this war, and we are grateful to Poland for doing that.
There is only one question: whom should Ukrainians root for at the Oscars now - the Ukrainian film «La Palisade» or the Polish «Under the Volcano»?
In general, this film is for export. We have lived through all of this and understand very well who the enemy is. Meanwhile, the world has not fully grasped the danger of this war. Some still doubt, trying to advocate for the enemy. It is a dangerous game - to wait and not take notice, thinking that Ukraine will protect everyone. The volcano’s effects could be felt by all.
- Your first film about war was «Reflection», before that, you had not acted in such films. Director Valentyn Vasyanovych plunged you into the horrors of war at its very beginning - in 2014. Captivity, torture, PTSD... How difficult was it to act in such a film?
- As an actor, it was an intriguing challenge. It was crucial that Valentyn Vasyanovych, a deep-thinking director, made this film. The subjects of Ukrainian captivity and PTSD are weighty, and it was important to depict them correctly without exaggeration.
Viewers may have felt uncomfortable watching this film, but we know that the tortures shown in the film are experiences that Ukrainians endure in real life. Since 2014, the «Isolation» prison in the DPR territory has been a terrifying place where our people have been tortured in various ways. The worst part was that the captives did not know if they would ever be released.
I played a military surgeon who ended up in this prison. Immersed in the filming process, I lived alone in an apartment and hardly went out. At that time, I watched many videos on the subject and read numerous books. I tried to come close to that heavy and unpleasant state and to remain in it. To avoid «jumping» into it only when in front of the camera and then coming out after the director called «cut».
- Great actors, before playing a role, observe people similar to the characters they will portray. How do you prepare for roles - for instance, when playing a person with PTSD after captivity?
- I spoke at length with psychiatrists and with nurses in rehabilitation clinics.
Doctors told me how people walk after captivity - not straight, but curling up into a sort of «question mark», barely lifting their eyes from the ground
I used this technical detail about a captive’s physiology.
The film’s consultant, Stanislav Aseyev - a journalist and author of the book «The Bright Path. The Story of One Concentration Camp» - told me many things. He was a prisoner in the DPR’s «Isolation» concentration camp for 28 months and described in his book the horrors inflicted on captives there. For example, Aseyev explained in detail what a person feels when subjected to electric shock - I reproduced this in the scene where my character is tortured in this way. He described how the current passes through, which muscles contract, and whether it is possible to scream when the current goes from the ear to the hand, causing spasms in the vocal cords.
- These are very frightening things, but Vasyanovych managed to turn this material into a work of art.
- Yes, everything in Valentyn’s work is very meticulous, dry and without excessive drama. If you noticed, there is no music in «Reflection» because it would only intensify an already terrifying picture.
- You attended the screening of «Reflection» in Venice. How did the European audience respond to the film?
- After the screening, there was prolonged applause. People said that we managed to convey the filth of war through artistic means. This story moved viewers, many people cried. I would add that this film should be watched on a big screen because viewing it on a phone or even a computer does not convey the full range of emotions.
«I learnt Polish from TV by ear»
- Whom would you refuse to portray in films today? Perhaps an evil muscovite?
- Listen, but who should play Muscovites? Should we invite actual Muscovites or what? Many Ukrainian actors are fluent in Russian.
This is a reality because we are a post-colonial country. Just as Lebanese people speak French fluently, or Indians speak English. One actor or another will play a Muscovite. We do not always play likeable characters, that is our lot as actors.
Personally, I do not refuse roles, but I do refuse certain material. If it is superficial or vulgar, flat, and uninteresting, then definitely no. But if the material is deep and relevant, then I would take it on, even if I had to play a villain. The structure of dialogues also matters to me.
- So you would play the role?
- No, because I do not speak Russian. I can talk, but I would have an accent, like representatives of Caucasian ethnic groups.
- Judging by your career, there seems to be a mutual affection between you and Poland. It all started with «Hamlet» in Poznan (2019), where you were invited for the lead role by the iconic Polish director Maja Kleczewska. How did this happen?
- Maja has been following Ukraine since 2013. Initially, she was concerned that our young people were dying on the Maidan, and then in the ATO. When she decided to stage her «Hamlet» at the Polish Theatre in Poznan, she thought it would be interesting if the main character returned not to Danish Elsinore from Wittenberg, but to Poland from Ukraine.
She searched a long time for the lead actor. I missed the initial audition dates, so I simply wrote to the director afterwards, and she arranged a meeting in Warsaw. After the premiere, Maja told me that I was the only one who gave her a satisfactory answer to the question of who Hamlet was.
I told her then that I understood Hamlet - he came to reclaim power because it was unjustly taken, and that is that. It is human, and there is no need to make a philosopher out of him
I also said that we should remember that in Shakespeare’s time, people came to watch this play because it was action-packed - there are so many corpses in the end. So there is no need to seek superhuman qualities or lofty ideals in Hamlet. Certainly, he is of a delicate soul, but above all, he is a human being. Maja and I discussed this for about four hours, she understood my stance on the character. And I was cast in the role.
- And, judging by the success of Kleczewska’s «Hamlet», Poles accepted you?
- I had long wanted to enter the Polish acting market. Especially since I know Polish - though not intentionally, I learnt it as a child. I can almost perfectly understand it by ear and communicate fairly well.
- How did you learn Polish?
- When I was in the sixth grade, the only TV channels we had in our village were UT-1 and UT-2. In some towns, people could watch other channels, but we only had these, broadcasting from morning till night about how much grain Ukraine had harvested. My father bought a satellite dish from abroad, and I started watching Polish TV - specifically, the channels Polsat and Polsat-2, which featured comedy series like «13 posterunek», «The Kiepski World» («Świat według Kiepskich»), and various sitcoms… It was all so colourful, with interesting storylines.
I became hooked on Polish television and learnt Polish by listening. Later, while working in theatre, I began reading books in Polish and occasionally speaking with native speakers. Right before «Hamlet», the theatre hired me a pronunciation tutor.
- After «Hamlet», Maja Kleczewska staged a production of «Forefathers' Eve» by Adam Mickiewicz at the Ivano-Frankivsk Drama Theatre, and it was reportedly «tailored for you».
- Maja is totally my director. Our collaboration in Poznan was so inspiring for both of us that after «Hamlet», we immediately began planning future projects.
We searched for material for a long time, Maja wanted to work on a piece of Ukrainian literature, and we even discussed «Macbeth». Then the full-scale invasion happened, and Kleczewska decided she would stage «Forefathers' Eve» because, in her view, there is no other anti-Russian dramatic work quite like it in Polish literature.
We chose the third part of this poetic drama, where Mickiewicz describes Polish-Russian relations that very much resonate with what Ukraine is experiencing now in its relations with Russia. Nothing new - this is a universal story for both Poland and Ukraine, as it is fundamentally about a person’s freedom being threatened by a powerful adversary.
- In «Forefathers' Eve», you once again play a prisoner. Well, you play the proud poet Konrad, but the audience perceives you as an Azovstal defender.
- While we were working on the play, we did not even think about captivity. I was very moved when audiences started interpreting the characters on stage as defenders from Azov. After the premiere, a friend told me that when my character Konrad emerged from an imaginary basement or prison for the grand improvisation, she saw it as if an Azov commander was coming out of the trench straight into enemy fire.
People interpret things in various ways. And that is fantastic because it means the work is multi-layered and rich in meaning. That is precisely what should happen with works of talent.
- You have already walked the red carpet in Venice twice. Now you could win an Oscar - why not? Americans already know you, a critic from The Hollywood Reporter once praised your performance in «Reflection». How do you feel about fame?
- I have no problem with people paying attention to my work and praising it.
Yes, I read about myself in The Hollywood Reporter and Variety - positive reviews inspire and motivate. And humility does not lead to anything good (smiles).
As for the Oscar - one should always hope, but simply being nominated is already a huge success.
Photographs from a private archive
Ukrainian journalist, singer and composer (music came first and still is a part of her life). She began her journalism career by writing for the music magazine «Galas». For many years, she worked as a cultural columnist for the newspaper «KP in Ukraine» and also had experience as the editor-in-chief of the «Atelier» magazine. In recent years, she was a music critic for the publication Vesti.ua, and with the start of the full-scale war, she found her niche as a journalist in the genre of social reporting.
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