Perfect refugees: how the mass relocation of Ukrainians is different from past migration crises in Europe?

Since 2014, the return of prisoners of war has been handled by the Joint Centre for the Search and Release of Prisoners of War under the SSU. However, with the onset of full-scale war, the number of captives increased significantly, leading to the establishment of the Coordination Headquarters for the Treatment of Prisoners of War in March 2022. The Head of its Central Representation, Yuliya Pavliuk, emphasises: the main priority is to locate and bring back all captives, but equally important is supporting the families of those missing in action and those waiting for their loved ones to return from captivity.

Nataliya Zhukovska: How are the lists of prisoners of war for exchange formed?

Yuliya Pavliuk: At the onset of the full-scale invasion, Ukraine established the National Information Bureau (NIB). According to the Geneva Convention on international law, this serves as a registry that records all defenders who are missing in action, regardless of their status. Even if military personnel have no relatives, information still has to be included in the NIB by the units where they served. This registry, in essence, becomes the exchange list as it is continuously communicated to the Russian side. In reality, according to international conventions and laws, prisoner exchanges should not occur during active combat. Ukraine currently has unique experience in this field.

There is no clear and regulated system for conducting exchanges. Every exchange and every negotiation is a special operation. Different negotiations for every individual

Of course, we do not disclose the uniqueness, methods, or schemes of conducting negotiations. This is classified information. However, in general, there is prioritisation. Those who have been in captivity since 2014 are a priority. We understand these individuals have spent more than nine years in captivity. However, when Russia proposes to return someone with a shorter duration of captivity, Ukraine accepts them.

Sometimes, after exchanges, misunderstandings and questions arise from families: «Why was that person exchanged and not ours?» Unfortunately, we cannot always dictate conditions to the enemy.

In addition, priority is given to severely ill and wounded men and women. According to international law, such categories of military personnel should be returned to their home country outside of exchanges. However, we know that our enemy does not adhere to these agreements. Overall, Ukraine's official position remains unchanged: we are ready to exchange everyone for everyone.

And who is exchanged with «more difficulty»?

There are categories of officers from certain Armed Forces units, the National Guard of Ukraine, and border guards whom Russia is reluctant to return. Furthermore, sometimes the Russians attach particular significance to prisoners of war with media coverage - those prominent in the media. As a result, media stories do not always positively influence exchange processes. We emphasise this when communicating with families. If relatives want to help somehow, they must consult specialists. War must be managed by the military. When improvisation begins, it is not good and can only cause harm.

If we look at the exchange statistics, for instance, if 100 people are returned, this number proportionally includes military personnel from different units. And if the Armed Forces are the largest, then their members will constitute the majority in captivity

The Armed Forces include the Marine Corps, ground units, assault brigades, reconnaissance battalions, tank crews and artillery personnel. The Armed Forces also have transport services, for example, which are less publicised and discussed, but many of their members are also in captivity. When families question why there are so few of «theirs», it is essential to understand that we consider the approximate total number of those who might be in captivity - tens of thousands of people. In each exchange, there will be more members of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, slightly fewer from the National Guard, border guards, and so on.

Fortunately, there has been significant progress in negotiations, as evidenced by recent exchanges. We have been able to return many defenders who had received life sentences or terms of imprisonment of 8-9 years.

Why are there delays in the exchange of prisoners? What causes prolonged pauses?

Regrettably, this does not depend solely on Ukraine. There are no fixed timelines, such as exchanges every Tuesday or every second Wednesday. It is an unregulated process. There have been instances where timelines and the number of people were agreed upon, only for the exchange to be cancelled either by Russia or due to the overall security situation. For example, if the exchange point comes under fire, the exchange cannot take place that day or soon after.

The exchange itself is a special operation. It may be scheduled for 8:00 in the morning but could be delayed until noon or 8:00 in the evening

Sometimes, Russia announces through its media that the exchange has already taken place when, in fact, it has not. The conditions under which the exchange occurs largely depend on the Russian side.

Where are Ukrainian prisoners held? Where are the worst conditions? What do freed military personnel say about captivity?

There is no «good» captivity. Detainees in prisons and detention centres have limited access to fresh air. They are confined to one room containing a toilet, a table where they eat and sleep, and a single window high up on the wall that does not open. Sometimes walks are allowed, but regimes are not always adhered to. From our side, the only demand we can and do make to the aggressor country is compliance with international conditions and conventions. If they held our defenders under conditions at least consistent with those outlined in the Geneva Convention, the health and well-being of the returned men and women would be significantly better.

Unfortunately, we cannot always influence this situation. Of course, upon their return, military personnel speak extensively about the torture they endured. We continually appeal to our international partners, particularly the UN mission and the International Red Cross. They are responsible for the condition of our military personnel.

Many of the freed men suffer from severe illnesses, consequences of serious injuries, and significant weight loss due to torture and inadequate nutrition

Upon returning from captivity, they undergo interviews with specialised services. The war crimes committed by the enemy are meticulously documented. What we can do now is document all the facts and transfer them to the appropriate international bodies.

How would you evaluate the activities of the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC)? What are the challenges in working with them?

Regrettably, representatives of this organisation in Russia are almost never allowed access to places where Ukrainian prisoners are held. Their work in temporarily occupied territories and in Russia is currently very limited and insufficient. Most of our defenders, returned from captivity, claim they have never seen Red Cross representatives even once. This particularly includes the delivery of letters and parcels. Even if parcels are sent via the Red Cross, they do not always reach the prisoners. We understand that the administration of the detention facilities may keep the parcels. However, the Red Cross should ensure that the parcels reach their intended recipients.

That is why we appeal to all international organisations and urge them to ensure the implementation of the mandate granted to the ICRC specifically in the aggressor’s country. They are the guarantors of the safety of our defenders there. We, in turn, provide every possible assistance to the Red Cross Mission in Ukraine. We have even created so-called mixed medical commissions, where representatives of various organisations, including the Red Cross, can visit prisoners and assess their condition. Through this initiative, we hoped Russia would follow our example and provide the same access to our prisoners. Unfortunately, to date, we see no results.

Can this explain why the Russians treat some battalions in captivity worse than others?

I see the men and women who return. I am present at every exchange. I cannot say that the condition of the military personnel depends on the unit they are in. I always state that much depends on the condition of the defenders at the time of their capture, their endurance, and their internal strength.

For those weaker in character and spirit, of course, it is harder. During one exchange, representatives of Ukraine’s KORD unit and the National Police were among those returned. One serviceman appeared to be in good physical shape. I asked him: «How did you manage? What were your conditions?» He replied: «I used all my efforts to keep myself in good shape. Whenever possible, I exercised - push-ups or pull-ups.»

Why are the conditions of Russian prisoners of war so drastically different from those of Ukrainian ones? How do they form the lists for exchange on their side?

The conditions differ because Ukraine is a legal state, which sets us apart from our enemy. We adhere to international conditions, conventions, and legislation. This is why all civilised countries of the world support us.

There are prescribed conditions under which prisoners of war should be held. In Ukraine, there are camps — special places for keeping prisoners. We are not like Russians.

Regarding the formation of exchange lists by the Russians, we cannot comment on this. Sometimes even the lists published by Russia do not always correspond to reality

If we analyse the latest Russian disinformation campaigns, the lists include individuals who have already been freed from captivity. At the same time, there are no severely wounded individuals, those who have been in captivity since the early days of the war, members of the Mariupol garrison, Chornobyl NPP personnel who are still held, or defenders from Zmiinyi Island. This is all done to spread disinformation and provoke our society. In my opinion, they form these lists randomly. Additionally, the Russians sometimes include civilians in the lists who, under the Geneva Conventions, should have been released without any exchange.

What should be the first steps if a loved one goes missing or is taken captive?

The first step when a serviceman goes missing is for the family to receive a notification from territorial recruitment centres if it concerns Armed Forces units. For units of the National Guard, border guards, or police officers, families receive information from their respective units. Next, families should contact law enforcement and file a report stating that their loved one is missing. Naturally, they should also contact the Coordination Headquarters. This is where people can receive clarifications on various issues. The Coordination Headquarters website has a personal account feature, which family members or representatives of the defender must use. It contains the most comprehensive information.

We always emphasise that this is a very powerful system where all available information about the defender must be provided, and families must ensure that this account is always active. And, of course, stay in touch.

What should absolutely not be done? Are there known cases where families of captives are approached with fraudulent offers, such as asking for money to return someone from captivity?

We constantly tell people to verify all information carefully with representatives of law enforcement or security units. War is a matter for the military. Unfortunately, fraudsters exploit human grief. Families post information on social networks, and fraudsters use it.

My personal advice as a representative of the Coordination Headquarters and a human rights lawyer is never to do this. Information posted online can also be found by representatives of the aggressor country. Fraudsters use it for personal gain through deceitful means, and the enemy uses it to obtain, among other things, intelligence data. Therefore, we advise: «Consult with special services». We know precisely how to follow this path correctly to avoid harming the family, the defender, or the state’s security.

How can the relatives or loved ones of captives assist in their release?

The exchange and return of prisoners are operational special operations that relatives are not involved in. Today, many families unite in community organisations. A coordination council has been established under the Coordination Headquarters, which includes representatives of these community organisations. We understand that the number of missing servicemen is too large for the Coordination Headquarters to handle alone. However, these community organisations will be involved in these processes. Such work is effective.

They also participate in international negotiations and conferences. Furthermore, relatives often find information about captives - possible photographs or videos - in enemy public forums. Verified information is then added to the personal account by the Coordination Headquarters. Such assistance from families is invaluable.

Do public actions in support of prisoners of war help accelerate exchanges, or do they hinder them?

In my opinion, awareness campaigns are appropriate during a time of war. Our nation must demonstrate its unity.

Moreover, these campaigns are a constant reminder to the world that we are enduring a bloody war, and thousands of prisoners are still held in the aggressor’s country and must be brought home.

Awareness campaigns are for the community. Negotiations and exchanges are handled by the military

However, when campaigns involve accusations and discrediting of state institutions, this undeniably plays into the hands of the Russians.

The UN Human Rights Monitoring Mission in Ukraine reported in October on torture and mistreatment of Ukrainian prisoners of war. At the same time, they noted that they had documented mistreatment of Russian armed forces prisoners of war. How objective is this report?

Ukraine is fully open to international observers, primarily to representatives of the UN and the Red Cross. We provide them with complete assistance. At the same time, the Russian side does not allow these representatives to even interview prisoners of war. This creates a very unequal situation, where we are fully transparent, and representatives can interview Russian prisoners of war and visit places of detention, but our men and women are completely inaccessible. This is a one-sided situation. The claims about the alleged mistreatment of Russian armed forces prisoners are just testimonies and statements. Let me tell you as a former investigator: to prove crimes, you need evidence. And that is not just words. There must be evidence, such as an inspection of the location and the condition of the defender. When we see our men returned with visible injuries, these are documented. This provides a much stronger evidentiary base than just words or statements someone might provide.

Does international humanitarian law work during the war in Ukraine? What are the chances of holding Russian war criminals accountable for violations of the Geneva Conventions?

We need to win the war. All those guilty must and will be punished. If we are speaking about the documentation of war crimes, everyone sees the condition in which Ukrainian prisoners of war return home. The evidence and facts that Ukraine possesses are indisputable. Accountability will happen. It is just a matter of time.

Photos provided by the press service of the Central Representation of the Coordination Headquarters on the Treatment of Prisoners of War

Croatians have warmly welcomed Ukrainians since the very first days of the full-scale war. According to official data, the country has taken in approximately 30 thousand Ukrainian refugees. Stress, language barriers, and lack of employment are just some of the challenges faced in a new country. In July 2022, several proactive Ukrainian women, who had overcome the tough path of adaptation themselves, decided to unite for a good cause. They established an organisation for their fellow countrymen called «Svoja», which has been actively helping those in need for three years now.

Iryna Pronenko: «I could not comprehend that war could happen twice in my life»

I come from Luhansk. I studied there, graduated from the Faculty of Psychology, and managed to work in my profession before 2014. As soon as the war began, my future husband and I left the city. We never wanted to live under Russian rule. In Luhansk, we left two apartments and all our belongings behind, embarking on a new life in Kharkiv. We invested our earnings in professional development and education because the situation in 2014 demonstrated that those with knowledge and experience had a better chance of finding employment. It took us eight years to build a new life and make something out of ourselves. By the time of the full-scale war, I was a managing partner of an HR consulting agency, and my husband had a psychological counselling practice. However, like in 2014, the war caught up with us again. In mid-March 2022, we decided to leave. Due to my husband’s disability, we both went abroad.

We chose Montenegro, not knowing that fate would decide otherwise. Our route passed through Hungary and Serbia. However, when boarding a bus to Belgrade, the driver refused to let us on with our cat. We started looking for another way to get to Montenegro, and it led us through Zagreb. At that point, we had been on the road for five days.

We arrived in Zagreb on 17 March 2022. Perhaps due to exhaustion and the sense of peace, we decided to stay there.

On Facebook, I found a group helping Ukrainians in Croatia. I wrote that a couple with a cat was looking for accommodation. That same day, we received a reply: «We would be happy to host you»

Within a few days, I saw a social media announcement about free Croatian language courses. Over the next month and a half, I studied. Finding a job in Croatia was not easy, but I continued working remotely in Ukraine. Eventually, I met the head of the «Svoja» organisation, offered my help, and got involved in volunteering.

I still help Ukrainians in Croatia with career counselling, setting up businesses, and job searches - such as writing CVs and preparing for interviews. Before us, no one else was doing this. With my beginner-level Croatian, I accompanied people to interviews. Later, when the association won a grant and began receiving funding, I was employed there as a specialist in employment and career consulting.

When the full-scale invasion began, I could not comprehend that war could happen twice in my life. There was an inner protest when you think, how many times must I start over?

In Croatia, it so happened that we created our own job. Its results are evident. Over two years, we have employed more than 500 people. For now, I do not plan to return to Ukraine - and I have nowhere to return to.

Tetyana Chernyshova: «It is very important to feel that you are not alone»

We are from Kyiv and, like many others, thought that the war would not last long - at most, three days. I remember sitting in the bomb shelter with my children. We have three. At that time, one daughter was eight years old, the other six. Our eldest was no longer living with us.

On the second day of the full-scale war, my husband said: «We are leaving. You have half an hour to pack. Whatever you take is yours. We are heading to Western Ukraine». We had a huge argument because I thought it was inappropriate and unnecessary to leave home. I took documents, money, some belongings, and underwear for three days. For some reason, I was convinced that we would return within a week.

On the way, along the Zhytomyr highway, we saw a lot of military equipment. Missiles were being shot down overhead. The children asked: «Why are there fireworks during the day? You cannot even see them». From Kyiv to Zhytomyr, it took us about seven hours. The next day, we heard horrifying news that cars were burning on the Zhytomyr highway and that there were Russian tanks there. We reached the Slovakian border. We managed to find a place to stay in a student dormitory. A few days later, we decided to go abroad with the children. Friends invited us to Zagreb, Croatia. My husband stayed behind, and I went with the children to the pedestrian border crossing. In a queue over seven kilometres long, we stood for 12 hours.

After crossing the border, I panicked. My mind was in chaos. I called the woman who had invited us to Croatia. She fully coordinated us. The next day, we travelled by train to Budapest and from there to Zagreb. And again, we thought we would stay for a week at most - and then return home. However, on March 8th, our house near Kyiv was destroyed by an enemy projectile. It was a direct hit. All that was left of the house was a pile of rubble. That was the moment I understood the gravity of the situation. At first, I was like an animal trapped in a cage. Only later did I start going outside, exploring where the shops and hospitals were.

The children were very well received at the local school. Simultaneously, they studied online in Ukraine. One daughter immediately integrated into the group, while the other struggled. She cried every day and said: «Mum, I do not want to go to school. I do not understand what they are saying. They hug me, and I do not want to hug them».

Croatians are a kind and empathetic nation. They sympathised with us greatly because 30 years ago, they also experienced war and understand what it is like. I worked online as a lecturer in therapeutic physical education at Shevchenko University. However, we were eventually told that it was impossible to conduct lessons from abroad. I had to resign. Until I learned the Croatian language, I worked wherever I could - cleaning floors and toilets, babysitting. In March 2022, I accidentally met a Ukrainian woman named Nataliya, and later, we founded our association «Svoja». We decided to provide informational support to Ukrainians who found themselves displaced by the war.

When you are in a foreign country and do not know your rights, anything can happen. For example, there were cases where people were deceived about their wages at work

Today, I work as a waitress in a café near my home and my children’s school, and I volunteer at «Svoja». From my own experience, I know that people arriving in a new place often do not know where to start or how to proceed. As for my adaptation, I have learned the language and gained some understanding of how to survive here. However, I still feel like a stranger in a foreign country.

Nataliya Hryshchenko, Head of the Ukrainian Association in Croatia: «For us, «Svoja» is one of our own»

We established «Svoja» in July 2022. At that time, it was not easy for anyone who had found temporary refuge in Croatia. We lived without unpacking our suitcases, waiting to return home the next day. Unfortunately, that did not happen. So, we decided to create our own community called «Svoja». To gain people’s trust, it was necessary to officially register the organisation. We were fortunate to meet the «Solidarna» Foundation, which supported us both legally and financially. They provided us with our first grant, registered a fund to support Ukrainians, and acted as our mentors.

Today, our core team consists of four people brought together by chance. Each of us has our own area of focus. We managed to build a community of Ukrainians who use our services, comprising over three and a half thousand people.

It is very important to feel that you are not alone. By helping others, we help ourselves cope with the pain that the war inflicts on all of us

First and foremost, we provide informational support. Our main focus areas are employment and education. We collaborate with the local employment fund. We have a database of people who contact us and respond to their requests quickly. There is no bureaucracy with us. We work with over 70 employers who provide us with job openings. We also cooperate with legal firms that support refugees. Additionally, we assist Ukrainians in validating their diplomas. The number of people seeking our services grows every year. People want to work in their professions and receive fair pay.

We also work in the field of human rights protection. We collaborate with the Ombudsman of the Republic of Croatia and have even had to seek their assistance. For example, 20 kilometres from Zagreb, there is a settlement of Ukrainians where there was no family doctor after the previous one resigned. This is a significant issue for Croatia, which lacks two thousand doctors. We wrote a collective appeal to the Ombudsman, who addressed the issue through the Ministry of Health.

Additionally, we organise language courses. So far, over 200 people have completed our programmes. From January 2025, we plan to introduce a Croatian language course specifically for medical professionals. We have also established an IT community that offers training sessions. Currently, we are running a course on artificial intelligence. Moreover, we provide regular psychological support lectures.

There are requests for psychological, physical, and even material support. Recently, we collected items and food for people who had just arrived from Ukraine. Their numbers continue to grow. Last year, according to official data, there were 22,900 Ukrainians in Croatia; by 2024, this number had risen to over 27 thousand.

Finding us is simple - we have our own website and are also active on Facebook, Telegram and YouTube.

«Women's Territory» is a nationwide organisation that has united women worldwide. Over nearly 11 years of existence, they have implemented dozens of projects, including cultural ones. The head of the organisation, Liliia Shevchenko, believes that a person who knows their roots automatically understands who they are and what they must do to preserve their country. The full-scale war has altered the organisation's operations. They have already delivered over five hundred tonnes of humanitarian aid to military personnel and civilians. They support families of prisoners of war and help women who have experienced violence. Moreover, they are expanding their presence in Europe.

Nataliia Zhukovska: Ms Liliia, you are the head of the «Women's Territory» organisation. What is this territory like?

Liliia Shevchenko: Our nationwide public organisation «Women's Territory» was founded by ideologically driven women who live and breathe Ukraine. This is not an empty phrase but the pure truth. «Women's Territory» is neither defined nor limited by borders. It is not only the territory of those residing in Ukraine but also the territory of women worldwide, especially now, when millions of Ukrainian women, fleeing war, have found temporary refuge in many European countries. We want to help them systematically. So, we decided that «Women's Territory» would now operate under the umbrella of the host country and its laws. Currently, work on the documents for «Women's Territory» in Poland is nearing completion. We have held talks with representatives from the Polish Ministry of Social Policy and with relocated Ukrainian businesses and Polish businesses. How will they help Ukrainian women in Poland? Primarily by organising Sunday schools. This is important so that children while learning about the culture of their host country, do not forget their Ukrainian heritage. Given that Ukraine is in a full-scale war and most funds from businesses and ministries are allocated to military needs, there is insufficient funding from the Ministry of Education for books and educational materials for children abroad. One of the tasks of «Women's Territory» is not only to establish Sunday schools but also to print books. We have already held talks with the «Gutenberg» publishing house. We will distribute books for free, starting with our Sunday schools.

We already have a developed base, so organising work in Poland will not be difficult. One of our members opened the first art school in Warsaw at the end of 2022 and has already received small grants from the local Polish authorities. The school offers free art classes to both Ukrainian and Polish children.

One of the messages of «Women's Territory» is that we not only take from the countries that shelter us but also give to them

We have provided Europe with qualified specialists. Due to the war in Ukraine, many educators, medical professionals and managers moved to the EU. Many of them have already had their diplomas recognised. For instance, our member, who led «Women's Territory» in Dnipro, now lives in Gdansk, has confirmed her qualifications, and is a qualified lawyer. Her mother also verified her diploma and works as a dentist. So, we offer our knowledge and services to the Polish people as well. We want the Poles to understand that they do not only give but also receive. This will also be one of the tasks of «Women's Territory» in Poland.

We will also focus on women's leadership and gender issues. A woman must understand her status and significance in society.

How has the organisation's work changed since the start of the full-scale war?

«Women's Territory» shifted 90 per cent towards volunteer activities. In Poland, for example, we partnered with several Polish foundations that had a 400-square-metre volunteer warehouse in Warsaw. We are grateful to the Poles for covering its rental costs for an extended period. It was packed to the ceiling with humanitarian aid, ranging from clothing and food to expensive medical supplies, which we distributed to Ukrainian hospitals. For example, we had diffuser devices, each costing around 2500 euros, with over a thousand in stock. We equipped hospitals with beds, X-ray machines, and vitamins. Both Ukrainians and Poles worked at the warehouse. We dispatched trucks loaded with aid based on recipients' requests and provided support to relocated family-type children's homes and care facilities for the elderly. We received tourniquets and body armour and raised funds for drones. We did not merely adapt to new challenges - we also helped others adapt to them.

Who are the members of your organisation?

There are around two thousand of us. There are women, heads of departments, who have their own public organisations and foundations. For example, our member is Iryna Mikhniuk - a widow, the wife of a fallen Hero of Ukraine. Since 2014, she has headed the organisation «Wings of the Eighth Hundred» - it consists of widows, wives of the fallen, and children. In Ukraine, there are already 19 officially registered branches of ours. The team includes women from various professions and financial backgrounds, but with a shared ideological mindset and vision. There are also military personnel, such as Viktoria Khrystenko, who was the first adviser to the Admiral of the Ukrainian Navy.

In my team, there is a board member of «Women's Territory» from Donetsk, Alina Khaletska, who was forced to flee her native city. Her family had a unique background. Her husband worked for the Donetsk administration, and she herself is a lecturer, professor and academician. They left everything behind when they fled. Upon arriving in Irpin, they worked hard to save money and eventually started purchasing a flat. Sadly, during the full-scale war, it was destroyed by an enemy shell. They endured the occupation in Irpin. In other words, they have lived through occupation twice in their lifetime. This woman was offered work abroad. Where do you think she is? In Irpin. She does not wish to leave Ukraine.

What problems do women approach you with?

Many women joined us when we became part of the coalition «Women, Peace, Security». These are activists fighting for women's leadership and supporting victims of violence. In Ukraine, this remains a major issue, especially in places like Bucha and Irpin. You are likely familiar with some of these stories. There is much I know but cannot share publicly. Our agreement is to not speak of experiences unless we were participants. I am a witness. These are stories lived by women, girls, or children. They share their stories themselves if they wish to. All stories are heavy. How do we support them? I always advocate for mutual assistance and supporting one another. It is crucial to speak with them very carefully, as every word can be traumatising.

We help them regain their footing, providing a sense of sisterhood and the reassurance that they are not alone - that we stand together

We stress that anyone could find themselves in a similar situation. Our message is one of solidarity. Sometimes, we involve these women in processes by seeking their help to show them they are needed. Engagement, even minimal, can serve as a distraction and relief. We have no formal programme for this, our approach has been refined over many years.

Additionally, through a memorandum of cooperation with municipal employment centres, we assist women in retraining and finding jobs. We collaborate closely with the Ministry of Veterans. Many of the women in «Women's Territory» are defenders who were once civilians. We were the first to help sew military uniforms and undergarments for women. We also sourced anatomical body armour specifically designed for them.

What has the organisation accomplished during its existence?

Our lives are now divided into «before» and «after» the full-scale war. Prior to it, we had a powerful project that united Ukrainian children living abroad. We also established the International Festival of Cultural and Creative Industries, known as «Women's Territory», which we later renamed «Masters' Territory». If not for the full-scale war, this festival would have received funding from the Ministry of Culture and Information Policy. It was a platform that elevated Ukrainian crafts, demonstrating that Ukrainian products are not merely sold at fairs and markets, but even in five-star hotels. For now, this project has been put on hold. Today, we focus on uniting Ukrainian women abroad.

We strive to ensure that Ukraine is not forgotten. Our initial focus is on registering «Women's Territory» in Poland and France. Next, we plan for Belgium, Switzerland, Germany and Spain

We have provided female defenders with over 1200 boxes containing first-aid kits, vitamins, special olive-based creams to prevent skin cracking and even perfumes.

Every woman should feel like a woman, no matter where she is. We even provided hair dye tailored to their colour types. Once, I asked the women to take photos for a media campaign to raise funds for these boxes. They sent back pictures - clean, with hairstyles and manicures. It turned out they had travelled to a district centre and, using their own money, found skilled manicure artists and hairdressers. They told me, «Lilia, when we opened these boxes, we felt like we were at home». You see, they received a psychological breath of happiness.

Your organisation has helped women with children evacuate from dangerous areas to avoid occupation. How did this happen, and how many people have you assisted?

We do not have exact numbers on how many people we have helped. We evacuated people from Melitopol, Berdyansk, Kherson, Donetsk region, and the left, already occupied, bank of the Zaporizhzhia region. Of course, we were assisted by the military. I am unsure if I am allowed to disclose the details of every rescue story. I will share one - the story of a mother with two children who were leaving Melitopol. At that time, her daughter was 15, and her son was three years old. Their father was in the Armed Forces of Ukraine. If the Russians had found this out, they would have been executed. She instructed her children to remain silent and, if necessary, to respond only in Russian. On their way, Russian soldiers armed with weapons boarded the bus to conduct checks. Approaching them, the muzzle of a rifle hanging on one soldier's shoulder accidentally pressed against the child's head. The boy was so terrified that he wets himself to this day. They were interrogated, their phone SIM cards were examined, and the family endured multiple rounds of hell. It later turned out they were fortunate that the child was not undressed. Only later did the mother notice a hidden sheet of A4 paper on her son's chest. On it was a drawing of his father in military uniform, with a flag and the words «Glory to Ukraine!». The boy had placed that drawing there himself. To him, it represented Ukraine, his life. If the Russians had seen that drawing, they would have been executed. We have many such stories.

Do you keep in touch with the families you have assisted?

Someday, I will revisit those lists. But for now, our priority is to officially establish «Women's Territory» in Europe and America. We are resilient, genuine, and active. We are women accustomed to giving, not taking. Perhaps in time, I will become more interested in the fates of those we have helped. However, I often question whether reaching out would be beneficial or if it might unintentionally bring harm.

You travel abroad frequently. What do you talk about there, how do foreigners react, and what interests them most?

I talk about the solidarity and resilience of the Ukrainian people. I share the harsh realities of war we face, the immense challenges, and our efforts to overcome them. My message is always framed to emphasise the need for support in these efforts. I say, «We are taking action, not standing by. Help us in this war in any way you can - through expertise, humanitarian aid, or military support». We consistently highlight the need to support the Ukrainian army, and I know our message is being heard.

«Women's Territory» supports prisoners of war and continuously participates in various campaigns. Do you believe these efforts contribute to exchanges?

Absolutely. We have been supporting the families of prisoners of war since the start of the war in 2014. We organise events with the mothers, wives, and children of captured marines. Do you remember those taken prisoner in Crimea at the beginning of the war? We brought the mother and daughter of one of the marines to the UN so that their speech could raise awareness and tell the truth about the war in Ukraine. Any information campaign must be planned and ongoing. Such initiatives not only ensure that the world does not forget those in captivity but also help the relatives of prisoners of war feel they are not alone, preventing them from being lost in their grief. Tragedy unites. We have many poignant stories related to the return of prisoners of war. Recently, there was a soldier on the list who had been eagerly awaited by everyone. They thought he had come back. However, it turned out it was not him. The surname was the same, but the first name was different.

You also conduct training sessions for government institutions on communication with veterans and their families. What are the key principles you focus on?

I will illustrate with the example of the Kyiv City Employment Centre. Engaging with a military veteran, a defender or a servicewoman, requires a particular approach. For instance, we - as empaths - often feel the urge to approach a soldier on the street and say, «Thank you for your service. Glory to Ukraine». We might want to hug them and say, «You are a hero!». Yet, almost none of this should be said or done. These are triggers. If you call them heroes, they often do not perceive themselves that way. This is why we educate not only employees of state institutions but also the civilian population. The most important thing is teaching how to understand and engage with these individuals. For example, when they come to the Kyiv City Employment Centre, the manager who interacts with them must be highly qualified and aware that every soldier might experience flashbacks. We train them to pay attention to facial expressions, eyes, and behaviour. Employees of such institutions must be prepared for any possible scenario because almost all soldiers have experienced concussions. Furthermore, there must be barrier-free access and inclusivity.

Veterans must be actively involved in rebuilding Ukraine after the war, not left idle at home

Sociologists warn of a crisis facing the country after the war, particularly a demographic one. Do you think Ukrainian women will return from Europe after the victory? What steps are needed to ensure this?

I am unsure if I can speak openly about this, but yes, we are facing a demographic crisis. A baby boom will not be enough to solve this. We are exploring solutions because it concerns our future. Will women return from abroad? The longer the full-scale war continues, the less likely it becomes. Many divorces are happening now. Numerous women have adapted to their children's needs, and most of these children are assimilating into the societies where they now live. We have already encountered such cases among my members. They lived abroad. The daughter wanted to return, but the son did not. He had adapted, made friends, and was better accepted in his class than he had been at home. He likes the new country.

We must understand that parents' decisions will be influenced by their children. Therefore, we need to prioritise working with children abroad

Moreover, many women abroad have managed to realise themselves better or earn more than they did at home. For example, she was a nurse in a hospital in western Ukraine, and now she works as a nurse in Wroclaw. In Poland, she earns significantly more. Our officials must listen to society and start developing a programme to bring Ukrainian women home today. «Women's Territory» will undoubtedly contribute to this effort, primarily with its experience and resources. After all, we live in this country - to defend, revive, and provide it with a future. Fortunately, the majority of «Women's Territory» members abroad understand this.