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«I hugged the trees farewell. I promised to come back»

Refugee from Mykolaiv on everything the war stole from her and temporary asylum in Poland.

Tetiana Bakotska

Mykolaiv, November 2022.
Photograph: Nina Liashonok/UkrInform/Eastern News

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For eight years, I recorded stories from people, whose life had been destroyed by the Russo-Ukrainian war, as I worked as a journalist for the National Public Broadcasting Company in Mykolaiv. Since 2014, when the occupation of Crimea occurred and fighting began in eastern Ukraine, the heroes and heroines of my TV and radio programs, stories, reports, articles and sketches have been the Ukrainian troops, volunteers, internally displaced persons and refugees.

The new chapter of the great war has brought even more death and total ruin into my life. At 39 I became a widow of a fallen soldier, a refugee. I ended up alone in a foreign country with two children (a 6-month-old daughter and an 11 y.o. son), without any relatives, friends, or people I knew. Now I am forced to write my own story as a refugee to document Russian war crimes and record the memories of what I have experienced.

Battles for the South

The first Russian missiles of February 24 2022, fell one and a half kilometres away from my home - on a large military airfield «Kulbakine». Thanks to the intel intercepted by the Main Intelligence Agency of the Ministry of Defence, the 299th brigade had managed to get all the aircraft into the air before the air raid began. After the combined missile and bomb strikes, the airfield was attacked multiple times by convoys of occupational troops. On the evening of February 25, they entered our village, which is 4km away from Mykolaiv, from the direction of Kherson. We could not believe that this was our new reality. But after the rain, the enemy tanks got stuck in the field between my house and the airfield. Six vehicles still managed to infiltrate the military facility. They were met with fire by the service members of the tactical aviation brigade named after Lieutenant General Vasyl Nikiforov, under the command of Colonel Serhiy Samoylov. The National Guard fighters were helping. Facing resistance, the Russians fled. Some of them could not find the way back and hid in the forest strips where we used to gather mushrooms.

On March 4th, they came back. Approximately at noon, a Russian drone flew over the airfield, and Russian airborne combat vehicles drove through the streets of our village once again. About 400 Russians had entered the premises of the airfield. The fighting began. Our infantrymen decided to let them come close, as their resources were limited to small arms. The Russians were 200 metres away from the operations centre. And then, the airfield’s defenders began shelling them with artillery. The Russians retreated.

A year after this battle, the commander of the tactical aviation brigade named after Lieutenant General Vasyl Nikiforov, Serhiy Samoylov, said in an interview that it was a fateful victory. By defending the airfield, our warriors saved Mykolaiv.

Evacuation. I hugged the trees farewell

Evacuation was recommended to all residents of our Shevchenko community, as these grounds had become one of the epicentres of battles for Mykolaiv. People who had to remain there for various reasons lived under constant crossfire. Without water, electricity, gas, or medicine. They would extinguish the fires caused by bombings themselves, feed and tend to local cats and dogs.

Oh, how hard it was to abandon everything that I love… But I did not have a choice. I hugged our trees: cherries, apple and pear trees, plums and apricots, which my husband and I planted in the Spring of 2014 when the war started and he was drafted for the first time. I talked to our house that we built ourselves in 2013: «We love you very much, but we must run away. Sorry. Stand steadily, and until we meet again!». Me and my children left for a village 100km north of Mykolaiv, close to the town of Voznesensk. We drove for 9 hours. The roads were congested with traffic. People were fleeing the Kherson region.

Tetiana with her children. Evacuation

We were hoping that it would be safer there. But in a few days, Russian military convoys had reached Voznesensk. They began shelling the town with heavy artillery. Bloodshedding battles commenced. A military unit that was just a few kilometres away from where we were then was being hit by missiles. I read the news: the goal of the enemy forces is to capture the Southern Ukrainian nuclear power plant that is just 30km away from Voznesensk. When the Russians captured the largest nuclear power plant in Europe, the Zaporizhia NPP, in early March, I was really scared that the same clashes would commence for our Southern Ukrainian NPP. So I began to look for an opportunity to get closer to the western border with my children. But the bridge to Mykolaiv had already been blown up. It was also not possible to reach Odesa by train since the railway bridge was destroyed as well. I accidentally came across a group of strangers on Facebook who agreed to take us to the evacuation train to Odesa. Going by car was dangerous: the roads were getting bombed and some territories were filled with mines. But we left at noon anyway. We rode into the unknown.

The «Odesa - Lviv» train

Odesa greeted us with a cold sea breeze and rain. We spent 17 hours waiting in line for the evacuation train headed to Lviv. The railway station was overcrowded. I found a small piece of empty space by the wall and we were finally able to sit down on the floor. Men, seeing their wives and children off at the train, sat next to us. Time after time they looked at us and asked us anxiously: «Make your children calm down or move away. You are irritating my kids. How can you even be so careless as to travel with such a small child?».

It came to me that it was unlikely for everyone to fit on the train. No one knew if there would be another train the next day and we did not have any place to stay. It was also impossible to come back. I called the police and explained our situation. A representative of the railway security called me back and said that he could help, as my husband, the father of my children, was among the defenders of the southern front among the Ukrainian Armed forces. He brought us to a group of people who, unlike us, were waiting for the train inside, in a dedicated room at the railway station. When the train arrived, we were told that we could enter one of the first four train cars. But nervous and exhausted people on the platform would not let us through. And once again the railway security representative helped us board the train. Me and my children managed to get in last. The train conductor informed us that we could enter any compartment that had less than six people in it. But everyone who had already got in refused to let us enter and would even push us out: nobody wanted to travel alongside a little baby. We had to leave our baggage behind. We only took a backpack with food and medicine. The saddest thing for me to leave behind was my son’s dobok (taekwondo uniform). But he reassured me: «Don’t worry. We’ve lost so much that my dobok is but a drop in the ocean». Then the train conductor proclaimed that the train would not take off until we were provided with a seat. Close to 2 AM we finally took off to Lviv. There was a Russian-speaking lady with three almost-adult children in our compartment who was travelling by the Red Cross programme to Germany. Her husband was working there and they’d already had free living quarters in Germany. She explained why she initially did not want to let us into the compartment: «The Red Cross promised us a comfortable trip. And we’ve earned it because we are from Mykolaiv. We went through stress».

Ruslan Khoda. Ukraine’s defender on the southern front. Died in battle in the Kherson region on August 4th 2022 at 14:00. This is the last photo of the hero

Lviv volunteers: all for the sake of victory

We reached Lviv in 12 hours. The railway station was as overcrowded as it was in Odesa. I did not know what to do next. I wanted to buy bus tickets to the Polish border. But there were none. I had to contact Ksenia Klym - a journalist, volunteer and the mother of Marko Klym, a Ukrainian soldier. In early March, Marko defended the Mykolaiv region from the Russian occupants, including the Voznesensk town, from which we travelled to Lviv. Ksenia came to the railway station right away and invited us to spend the night at her place, as my children were exhausted by such a long trip.

The following day Christina Brukhal, a volunteer from Lviv, helped us board an evacuation bus to Warsaw. At first, we came to a place where lady Christina and her colleagues had organised a shelter for people wanting to flee to Poland. Christina provided us with warm clothes so we would not get cold at night at the border. Additionally, she gave us diapers, child food and a new backpack. In the evening, when the bus arrived, almost all the volunteers went outside to bid us farewell. It was very touching: in such a short time, strangers in Lviv had bestowed so much love upon us that it was almost as if we had lived together our whole lives. They were with us until the last moment of our being in our Motherland. Everyone cried.

The same evening, Ksenia alongside other Lviv residents went to deliver humanitarian help for the warriors in the Mykolaiv region, where hellish battles were taking place.

Loss

My husband, Ruslan Khoda, went to the recruitment office on the first day. In 5 months, on August 4th 2022, he died in battle during a Russian artillery shelling near Lozove village in the Kherson region.

Ruslan was the Commander of the reconnaissance platoon within the 36th Separate Marine Brigade named after Counter Admiral Mykhailo Bilynskyi (military unit A2802, city of Mykolaiv).

Scouts are always the first ones to go. On July 25th Ruslan turned 37, and in 10 days his two children, Mykhailo (11 years old) and Myroslava (11 months old), became half-orphans.

Ruslan’s body, like many of his comrades who also died there, still has not been returned to his relatives. Russian troops had been constantly bombing the territory now called the Lozova Grave, so there was no burial. If the body is missing, the fallen soldier’s family cannot receive financial support from the government. Only on Christmas of 2023 did our children presents from the Red Cross: Myroslava - a Frozen doll, and Mykhailo - a chocolate bar and a bottle of water.

«Taekwondo Olsztyn» club coach Marcin Chożelevsky and Tetiana and Ruslan’s son. The boy enjoys the sports lessons

In the Autumn of 2022, an unknown woman called me on Viber and said: «My grandson was also there, where the Lozova Grave is now. Every day, my grandson watched through binoculars over Ruslan's body. At the first opportunity, he took him away. He asked me to tell you that Ruslan's body is in the ground. It's untouched by dogs, unpicked by birds. The bodies of all the soldiers who remained there rest in Ukrainian soil, and their souls continue to defend the South.»

In 2014, when the Russo-Ukrainian war started, Ruslan was drafted for the first time. Our son was three years old. Ruslan could flee to Poland like many people he knew did. After all, his mother, two sisters and nephews still live in the suburbs of Moscow. He took this step because for him it was a battle for the opportunity for people to choose their own future, for a chance to live in a fair world. And for him, the war was not over in 2015 when he came home: he was ready to pay the highest price for the victory of Ukraine.

Mykolaiv: a city on an explosive wave

Mykolaiv is called that since the beginning of the full-scale invasion. Russian forces repeatedly stormed the city, regularly shelled it with cruise missiles, cluster munitions, attacked with rocket artillery and targeted it with S-300 surface-to-air missiles. The occupants performed their largest shelling of Mykolaiv on the night of July 31st 2022. It was their most massive attack of the entire war.

The following day, Ruslan called me for the last time. He wanted to say goodbye because he knew that he would not make it alive from that fight: «You will make it. Your task is to raise our children as patriots, as decent people. Everything will be Ukraine!»

Again and again, I thought about what the war had taken from us: Russian missiles destroyed the student dormitory, where 18 years prior he and I met for the first time (during the beginning of the Orange Revolution of 2004); the Pedagogical university where he and I studied for 5 years; one of the facilities where Ruslan used to work; schools and hospitals, a church where we christened our children; a theatre that we would go on holidays… In terms of the scale of destruction and the number of bombings, the Mykolaiv region ranks third after the Donetsk and Luhansk regions.

School in the village of Blagodatne in the Mykolaiv region destroyed by the Russian forces, July 19th 2023. Photo: Nina Liashonok/Ukrinform/ABACAPRESS.COM

Since April 2022, the city has been living without a centralised water supply. The Russians destroyed the water source which Mykolaiv was getting water from. As of July 2023, the overall damages inflicted upon Mykolaiv’s infrastructure due to Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine have been estimated to be over 860 million euros. 159 civilians including 2 children in Mykolaiv and 16 children in the region have lost their lives to the full-scale war waged by Russia.

Life in Poland

In April 2022, I came to Olsztyn with my children - the capital of the Warmińsko-Mazurskie voivodeship. Here my son Mykhailo had the opportunity to continue practicing taekwondo. It is more than just sports for our family. Grigoriy Khozyainov, my son’s and husband’s coach, the head of the Mykolaiv Regional Taekwondo Federation, senior coach for the Ukrainian national cadet team, participated in battles for Mariupol, in the Mykolaiv region and the Kherson region as part of the 36th Separate Marine Brigade named after Counter Admiral Mykhailo Bilynskyi. He was declared MIA (missing in action) on November 7th 2022 during battles on the outskirts of Bakhmut. He was 50 years old.

During his lifetime, our coach managed to bring up a World Champion among cadets, Champions of Europe and winners of many international and Ukrainian tournaments. My husband was among the first students of Grigoriy Khozyainov. Ruslan grew up in a large family. His parents often could not afford the training fee. When his coach found out about it, he said that talented kids could study for free under his mentorship. And because of that, later on, Ruslan volunteered as a children’s coach in the Shevchenko community on the outskirts of Mykolaiv. Maybe he found himself in those kids, as it was too expensive and difficult for them to go to the city for training. The last taekwondo training session that my husband conducted ended at 6 PM on Wednesday, February 23 2022, in the village of Shevchenkove, Mykolaiv region, which was among the villages that suffered the most from Russian shellings. Possibly, the building in which Ruslan used to teach taekwondo does not exist anymore.

My husband wanted to serve in the 36th brigade in particular because our coach had been serving there since Autumn of 2022. Grigory Borysovych felt the imminence of the war. He was offered work as a coach in European countries multiple times but he chose a different path: he left to defend the Donetsk frontline.

When Ruslan died, his coach was distressed by the tragedy. Ruslan was like a son to him. To comfort Grigory Borysovych at least somehow, my son promised him that he would take his father’s place and conduct trainings for the children of the Shevchenko community when we came back to Mykolaiv. The coach could not hold back his tears.

In Olsztyn, my son once again has the opportunity to be with his taekwondo family. He has been training free of pay here for over a year now. Coach Marcin Chożelevsky has given him a new dobok. On May 20th 2023, the Kujawsko-Pomorska league tournaments took place in Bydgoszcz. Mykhailo won a golden medal.

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Journalist, editor of the Mykolaiv branch of the National Public Broadcasting Company of Ukraine. Author of TV and radio programs, reports, and articles on military, environmental, cultural, social and European topics. Published in the newspaper of the Ukrainian diaspora in Poland «Our Word», on the nationwide website «Eurointegration Portal» of the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister for European and Euro-Atlantic Integration and the Ukrainian Crisis Media Center. Participates in international training programs for journalists: Deutsche Welle Akademie, Media Neighbourhood (BBC Media Action), Thomson Foundation, and others. Co-organiser of various events and training sessions: educational and cultural projects for refugees in Poland, implemented by Caritas, Federation of NGOs FOSa; «Culture Helps», implemented by Osvita (UA) and Zusa (DE). Co-author of the book «A Heart Devoted to the People» about the history of southern Ukraine. Published articles on military topics in the books «War in Ukraine. Kyiv - Warsaw: Together to Victory» (Poland, 2022) and «Environmental Readings: Preserving for Future Generations» (Ukraine, 2022).

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Bakhmut newspaper «Vpered»

I had been waiting for weeks to speak with «Vpered’s» chief editor, Svitlana Ovcharenko. Finally, late on a Saturday evening, she called me while I was walking along the waterfront of a small Polish town. My thoughts were in the destroyed Bakhmut, among the dispersed community of Bakhmutians scattered by the war.

Eighty-four-year-old Vasyl from Bakhmut now lives in a retirement home in the Czech Republic. In the newspaper «Vpered», he shared, «They gave me a new mattress! I did not want to lie on the old one, and now I do not want to get up from the new one - it is so comfortable». Comfortable furniture, like everything else of value to the people of Bakhmut, has disappeared in the city's ruins. All that remains are the people, the keys to their destroyed homes, and... the city’s print newspaper.

Svitlana Ovcharenko (in the middle) with colleagues during the artistic process of creating a newspaper for Bakhmutians

Readers in the underground

Before the war, the editorial office of the Bakhmut newspaper «Vpered» was located on Peace Street. Chestnut trees grew in the yard, blossoming with soft pink flowers in the spring and dropping shiny brown nuts generously in the fall. Once, they even cracked the windshield of the editorial car.

The eight windows of the office witnessed life: late-night newspaper layouts, meetings with readers, emotions, and debates. Now, only charred trunks and ashes remain. «Those windows are gone, and there is no life behind them. Where there once was a porch where we loved to drink coffee, now there is a black void», says Svitlana Ovcharenko.

The newspaper’s release was only suspended twice: in 1941 when Nazi Germany attacked and on February 24th 2022 - because of the Russian invasion

«Bakhmut was bombed on the first day of the invasion», - Svitlana recalls. - «We had prepared the newspaper on February 23rd, but on the 24th, we could not retrieve it from the printing house in Kramatorsk because the road was under constant fire».

Pro-Russian militants had attempted to seize Bakhmut back in April 2014, but on July 6th of that year, the city returned to Ukrainian control. The war raged 30 kilometres away for eight years, but no one imagined it would reach the city itself.

They would build promenades, lay tiled pavements, develop parks - instead of building defence fortifications

In March, the editor of «Vpered», Svitlana Ovcharenko, left for Odesa with her mother, hoping to wait out the «escalation». She dressed in a tracksuit, packed essential items in a backpack, and slipped two sets of keys - one to the newspaper office and one to her apartment - into her pocket.

The first issue of the newspaper was printed in the Autumn of 2022, in the midst of the war.

During the first months of the war, Svitlana lived glued to the news, keeping track of what was happening across the country. Bakhmut had become one of the most dangerous places on Earth, yet people stayed.

The Russians cut off electricity, gas, and mobile connections, while their propagandists misled the population via radio signals, claiming that everyone had abandoned them, and even local authorities had fled.

«Kyiv has fallen», - blared from the radios

In the first months of the full-scale war, nearly 50 thousand people left the city of 73 thousand. Yet some returned, saying, «There is no one waiting for us there, so there is no point in leaving».

The Russians launched an active offensive in August, and fierce fighting broke out among the city's buildings, the most intense battles since World War II.

Efforts to persuade the remaining residents to leave were unsuccessful. By October, local authorities started bringing in basic heating stoves, firewood, and coal. Every trip outside the basements could be a resident’s last, but nearly 20 thousand people remained in the city.

This jolted Svitlana Ovcharenko out of her stupor. She decided to revive the newspaper to provide accurate information to those who were afraid to leave. There were countless challenges: accounting records, passwords, and access codes had been left behind in Bakhmut. However, thanks to the efforts of the National Union of Journalists of Ukraine and a Japanese foundation, the first issue was printed on November 4th 2022, right in the midst of the war.

The first printed edition was brought to Bakhmut by Italian journalists.

Foreign journalists helped bring the newspaper to Bakhmut

The residents took the paper with surprise and joy, believing it was a sign that the end of the war was near. «It was a ray of hope in our hell», they later wrote on social media.

«Vpered» published an interview with the mayor, Oleksiy Reva, who urged civilians to evacuate immediately. «Kyiv has not fallen, and Bakhmut residents will be welcomed in any Ukrainian city», the newspaper wrote. And people began to leave...

Before the war, much had been said about the death of print newspapers in Ukraine. But it turned out that the local newspaper, which people had trusted for years, held great influence. It was no coincidence that Russian occupiers repeatedly forged «Vpered» to spread their propaganda among the locals.

In February 2023, Deputy Prime Minister Iryna Vereshchuk reported that fewer than four thousand residents remained in Bakhmut.

One of the last issues of the newspaper was brought to Bakhmut by volunteer Mykhailo Puryshev’s team in May 2023.

In a room lined with sandbags, stacks of newspapers lay in the middle. People with weary faces gathered around, reading with hope, longing to hear they could stay in their homes. But no - the newspaper reported that the city was close to falling under Russian control. On May 20th 2023, Russia declared the complete capture of Bakhmut.

«Should we keep publishing a newspaper for a city that no longer exists?»

In response, Ukrainian soldiers released drone footage showing collapsed roofs, destroyed apartment blocks, burned-out vehicles… a dead, deserted city. Russian forces had taken control of Bakhmut's territory, but the city itself was entirely destroyed. Experts estimate it will take at least ten years to clear the landmines, and another decade to remove the rubble.

The remains of Svitlana’s apartment in Bakhmut

Svitlana Ovcharenko received a call from Serhiy Tomilenko, the head of the National Union of Journalists of Ukraine (NUJU). He asked whether it made sense to continue publishing the city’s newspaper, given that Bakhmut no longer existed. Ovcharenko responded: «Bakhmut lives in each of us. As long as we breathe, the city remains alive. Because Bakhmut is more than just bricks and concrete. It is us - the people».

The NUJU involved Ovcharenko in the IRMI (International Institute of Regional Press and Information) project, which was implemented in partnership with Fondation Hirondelle and financially supported by Swiss Solidarity.

The newspaper started being delivered across Ukraine to refugee centres where most Bakhmutians now live. There are already 12 such centres. Some former residents of Bakhmut even pay to have the newspaper delivered via Nova Poshta, spending 55 hryvnias (about 5 zlotys) to receive each issue. «Even the smell of the printing ink on Vpered reminds me of home», admits 62-year-old Nadia, who now lives in Poltava and goes to the post office every two weeks to collect the newspaper.

«Vpered» newspaper arrived at one of the refugee support centres

«I can not part with the keys to my bombed-out apartment»

Svitlana Ovcharenko continues to live in Odesa with her elderly mother in a rented apartment. «Where my apartment in Bakhmut once stood, there is now a massive black hole. My mother's home is nothing but ruins. I was asked to donate my keys to the «Time Capsule» installation about Bakhmut, but I can not bring myself to part with them. As long as I have them, there is still hope that one day I will unlock the door to my home».

«Time Capsule»: keys to apartments that no longer exist

In one of the newspaper's photo illustrations, keys of various sizes and shapes are laid out on an old fabric. These fragile symbols of lost homes each carry the pain and memories of lives destroyed.

In a newspaper story, 71-year-old Lyudmyla shares her experience: «My husband and I settled on the left bank of the Dnipro. The room is small and without repairs - old wallpaper and outdated plumbing. The windows do not work, and the ventilation is poor. It is painful to compare it to our previous home. So much time has passed, yet we are still adjusting to new streets and these everyday inconveniences».

The topic of lost homes resonates deeply with Svitlana Ovcharenko. I had seen her photos and heard her voice - she struck me as a much younger woman. As if reading my thoughts, Svitlana clarified, «I am already retired. I understand my readers. Like them, I still can not sleep soundly in an unfamiliar bed».

Despite her personal struggles, she continues to publish the newspaper. For a long time, she prepared each issue alone. A colleague, who had found refuge in Sumy Oblast, helped format the text for the eight-page paper.

Sometimes, they would start work at 2 AM and continue until morning—this was the only time they both had access to electricity due to the destruction of the energy system. «I set my alarm for 2 AM, wake up, go to the kitchen, brew coffee, and turn on my laptop. I am in Odesa, my colleague is in Sumy».

Now, four people work with Svitlana on the newspaper. They also manage the website, fill social media with updates and shoot videos.

German politician and film director Rebecca Harms pointed out the «Vpered» newspaper as an example of a preserved printed mass media on a meeting with Ukrainian journalists

«Do not repeat Bakhmut’s mistakes»

One of the latest issues of the newspaper features a profile of soldier Volodymyr Andriutsa, call sign «Talent». He was born and lived his entire life in Donetsk Oblast. He died defending Bakhmut. His father, Mykola Andriutsa, recalls with sorrow how long it took his son to accept that Russia had become the enemy.

- There was even a time after 2014 when Volodymyr travelled to Crimea and then to Russia, - recalls Mykola. - Even on a day-to-day level, he saw how much they hated us, Ukrainians. The full-scale war turned him into a true patriot and defender.

Recently, the newspaper editor received a message from an acquaintance asking to anonymously share her husband’s story. He had gone through so much trauma that his life had become a nightmare - he wandered around a foreign city, collecting trash and food scraps, and bringing them back to their rented apartment. His actions seemed senseless, but perhaps he was seeking some personal meaning and stability in the chaos of war.

The people of Bakhmut are now scattered across the world. They are learning to live again, but they still remember their city and dream of returning. «Bakhmut lives as long as we remember it», says Svitlana. And as long as the «Vpered» newspaper keeps them connected, that memory remains alive.

Each new issue reminds the Bakhmutians of their home left in ruins

Next to me, a peaceful Polish town drifts off to sleep. In the quiet evening, I ask the editor of the Bakhmut newspaper what she would say to Polish and Ukrainian readers.

- Do not repeat Bakhmut’s mistakes. Do not forget about the war. Protect your lives. Otherwise, nothing will be left but ruins and memories…

Photos from the «Vpered» newspaper’s archives

20
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A Destroyed City’s Newspaper: how Bakhmut’s Paper publishment Saves People from Sorrow and Propaganda

Galina Halimonik
Anne Applebaum, portrait, burgundy

Tim Mak:  So are you calling it “Autocracy Inc.” or “Autocracy Incorporated”? 

Applebaum: I mean, Autocracy Inc. sounds cooler. The only problem with it is that, you know, when you hear it, it sounds like it could be I-N-K. You know, Autocracy Ink!

I like that. I think the double meaning actually makes your book like three levels cooler.

The reason why the book has that title is that I spent a long time searching for a metaphor.

The relationship between modern autocracies: they are not an alliance, they are not a bloc. I don't even think they're an axis because axis implies some kind of coordinated activity. What they are more like is a huge international conglomerate within which there are separate companies that cooperate when it suits them, but otherwise do their own thing.

And I think that's the best way to describe a group of countries who have nothing in common ideologically. You have communist China, nationalist Russia, theocratic Iran, Bolivarian Socialist Venezuela… You have these actually quite different styles of leadership and different ways of claiming legitimacy, but they do have a few things in common. One of them is the way in which they use the international financial system. Unlike the most famous dictators of the twentieth century, most of the leaders of these countries are very interested in money, and in hiding money, and in enriching people around them.

They dislike the democratic world. They dislike the language that we use. They don't want to hear any more about human rights or rights at all.

You know, the right to freedom of speech or the right to a free press. They also don't want to hear about transparency. They prefer to conduct their affairs behind a veil of secrecy. They don't want institutions that expose them, whether those are domestic or international.

And all of them see the language of transparency and rights as their most important enemy, whether mostly because that's the language that their domestic opponents use, whether it's the Navalny movement in Russia, or whether it's the Hong Kong democrats in China, or whether it's the complex Venezuelan opposition — they all use that kind of language, because they all understand that those are the things they are deprived of. 

Autocracy Inc. is an attempt to encapsulate that group of countries.

“Autocracy Inc.”. Photo: advertisement materials

And you write a lot about how they've created this network to steal, to launder funds, to oppress people, to surveil, to spread propaganda and disinformation. I read with great interest your argument that this is not Cold War 2.0. Because you argue that ideals are too disparate, they don't have a unified ideology. 

But I also found that as I was reading your book, I sensed a sort of underlying ideology that does kind of bring all these countries together: China, Russia, Iran, North Korea. It’s more of a worldview. It’s less of a prescriptive ideology.

But it is this worldview of nihilism and cynicism and hopelessness – a sort of future where the truth is impossible to know, so the public shouldn't even bother trying to find out. Isn’t that what unifies this bloc of anti-Western countries? 

I think you're right that those feelings are what they want to induce in their populations and maybe our populations too. They want people to feel that politics is a realm of confusion and something they can't understand.

They want people to feel cynical and apathetic. They want people to stay out of politics. Authoritarian narratives and authoritarian propaganda vary between a kind of advocacy for the supposed stability and safety of autocracy, as opposed to the chaos and degeneracy of democracy. It sort of varies between that and the Russian version, which is streams of lies so that people feel confused and disoriented and they don't know anymore what's true and what's not.

So you're right that aligns them. You could also say that another thing that aligns them is a kind of anti-enlightenment view of the world, and they don't want rational thinking or science. They want to be free of any checks and balances. 

They want to be free of any obligation to report or respond to the truth. They want to mold and shape the world, according to their somewhat different personal visions. 

That's the way they approach the world. So there are things that unify them. There are also things that make them different.

My goal is to not to claim that they're all the same. But they do have some similar goals, and they share certain interests.
Anne Applebaum. Photo: Impact 24 press materials

Using that, though, can we conceptualise what's happening now in the world as the start of a new Cold War, or do you still think that's the wrong way to look at the problem?

I think that's the wrong way to look at the problem. It's true that it's a war of ideas.  But to say the Cold War implies  a geographical separation, a Berlin Wall and it also implies unity on both sides, which we don't have on either side, actually.

And there is also a lot of the world that doesn't really belong in either camp or switches back and forth. There are a lot of complicated countries like India or Turkey or the Gulf states, which play different roles. Sometimes they align with one side, sometimes they align with another. 

And I also want to stress that something I just said, and I'll emphasise it again, that people who align with the autocratic worldview are found inside democracies, and they aren't a fringe. 

In the United States, they dominate the Republican Party, which is one of our two great political parties. In other countries, they play an important role in political coalitions.

The countries you mentioned as being part of Autocracy Inc.: China, Russia, Iran, North Korea, and you also add countries like Mali and Zimbabwe as other examples of countries that might fall under this banner. They don't really strike me as innovative, growth places. They don't really strike me as where the future lies. Just to play devil's advocate here, why should we be concerned about them?

First of all, I do think China is a place that's innovative and is very interested in the future of AI and is putting a lot of money into it. So that's a big parenthesis. 

You're certainly right that Mali isn't really a model for anybody.

I don't even think Russia is a model of a society that people want to live in or admire. But we do need to care about them because they care about us.

Although they're not that attractive, they are capable of doing a lot of damage. So their vision is negative. They're very focused on us. They want to undermine us.

Maybe people in London or Paris or Madrid don't wake up in the morning and feel threatened by Russia, China, and North Korea. But there are people in North Korea who wake up every morning and think about us. They're interested in affecting our politics. They're interested in challenging the weaker democratic states.

The Iranian proxies in the Middle East are interested in challenging and overturning the order in the Middle East. They have both military and propaganda and other sources of disruption that they are willing to use against us. We might not want to care about them or think about them, but I didn't think that we have a choice anymore and the evidence is all around us. 

And let me just say a word about Ukraine. Why did Russia invade Ukraine? Part of the reason is that Putin, he's a megalomaniac and he has an idea of himself as the leader of a restored Russian empire, and he's used that language in the past.

People holding a massive flag consisting of Ukrainian, Crimean and Tatar flags combined on the Independence Square on March 23rd 2014. Photo: Sergei Supinsky/AFP/East News

But he also did it because Ukraine felt to him like a challenge, an ideological challenge. Ukraine was another large Slavic country that had been very corrupt. It was heading very much in the direction that Russia went, becoming very much like that, and was very dominated in many ways in the business sphere, in particular by Russia. 

And yet the Ukrainians organised and through civic activism, they overthrew that regime, they changed it, and they created a democracy. Sometimes it seems like a pretty rocky democracy, but it's a democracy, nevertheless.

And they, even during the war in Ukraine, have a sense of freedom of speech and ease of conversation that you don't have in Russia and haven't had in Russia for many years

So the model that Ukraine presents, of a country that's aiming to be integrated into Europe that would like to be part of the democratic world, is very threatening to Putin, because the scenario that he has been most afraid of, unlikely though maybe it now seems, is exactly the 2014 Maidan scenario. He's afraid of civic activism organizing to somehow overthrow or threaten him.

The scenes of the people swarming Yanukovych's golden palace at the end of the Maidan revolution must have frightened him because that's what he's afraid of. And so crushing Ukraine is also about crushing that idea and showing Russians that that's not going to work and we're not going to let that kind of country survive.

And the other purpose of the war was to say to America and Europe and the rest of the democratic world: «we don't care about your stupid rules. And we're not bothered by this norm that you say existed since 1945, that we don't change borders in Europe by force. We're not interested in that. And we're going to show you that it doesn't matter. And we're also going to show you that all your language about never again, there'll never be concentration camps, there'll never be torture and murder in Europe – we're going to show you that we don't care about that either.

We're going to set up concentration camps in occupied Ukraine. We're going to kidnap children, take them away from their parents or the institutions they live in. We're going to make them into Russians. And we're going to continue with this project of destroying Ukraine as a nation and as a state».

And that's a deliberate challenge to the way that the Western world thinks

I keep using the word Western. It’s an old habit, but Western is the wrong word – [I should be saying,] the democratic world.

Ukraine is obviously subject to this physical violence that you've outlined. It's also constantly subject to the propagandistic efforts of Russia through things from troll farms, through narratives that they're trying to spread, and dissent within the society. I was really taken by one anecdote you put in the book - [which has] Bill Clinton giving a speech in 2000 and saying, as a joke, that China has been trying to crack down on the internet and everyone in the room laughs. 

…And it was, it was at Johns Hopkins University. You know, it was a room full of people who do political science and foreign policy…

…Smart, smart people who think a lot about the future, and Bill Clinton said that trying to crack down on the Internet was like trying to nail jello to the wall. 

And so thinking about the developments in politics around the world over the last decade, it really does seem that at the core of this book is an idea: that this original promise of the Internet, a globalised world that would be connected and freed from government surveillance and control, that that original promise is kind of dead. 

I know the jury's still out, but I want to get a sense from you: was the development of the Internet over the last decade fundamentally a net positive benefit for human freedom?

The Internet is a reflection of human nature in a certain way. It was an expansion of already existing trends. So it's hard for me to say, to talk about the Internet as a whole, being good or bad. 

I mean, it's just a reflection of what we are like. I think we can say pretty clearly now about social media, which is a particular piece of the Internet, has created a kind of chaos.

It fundamentally changed the way that people understand the world, particularly the political world and political information.

So the way that people now get information is through short bursts of messages on their phone.

And it's also become just much, much easier to create instant propaganda campaigns. The Soviet Union actually used to run what we now would call active measures or fake news campaigns. There's a famous one that grew up around the AIDS virus. They had started a conspiracy theory that the AIDS virus had been an invention of the CIA and they planted it.

The idea was to make a kind of echo chamber where people would hear it from different places and people would believe in it. And I think it had some impact. I think some people around the world believed it.

You can now do a campaign like that in an hour.

In this group photo, released by the Russian state agency «Sputnik», Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping are attending a concert on the occasion of the 75th anniversary of the establishment of diplomatic relations between Russia and China in Beijing on May 16 2024. Photo: Alexander Ryumin/AFP/East News

You mentioned how the Internet was a reflection of human nature. And there is an assumption that democracy and freedom are natural human callings and that we're kind of drawn to it by the nature of what humanity is.

But you can also see if you look around the world that a lot of people are willing to give up their own freedom for a sense of security, or to give up some freedom as long as the government imposes their view of the world on other people they don't happen to like.

And I wonder if you've grappled with or changed your view on the nature of human beings in the last decade or so.

So my previous book, which is called Twilight of Democracy, was much more about this. It was about the attraction of authoritarian ideas and specifically why they're attractive to people who live in democratic countries.

The more you stare at history books and the deeper you look at the origins of our modern democracies, the easier it is to see that most of humanity through most of history has lived in what we would now describe as autocracy, monarchies, dictatorships. 

Democracies are the exception. There are very few of them. Most of them fail. I think almost all of them have failed at one point or another. They require an enormous amount of effort to keep going and to maintain. Even the ancient scholars, even Plato and Aristotle, wrote about how democracies can decline. So it's not as if this is even a modern phenomenon.

Forms of democracy that were known in the ancient world were also considered to be always at risk of being destroyed by the appeal of a strong man or by disintegration. So I don't think democracy is at all normal.

I think it's probably abnormal. And the attraction that people feel for, you know, for dictators doesn't surprise me at all. 

Let’s place Autocracy Inc. in the context of the ongoing situation in the United States right now. We're speaking right after Donald Trump has survived a shooting attempt and a convention where he seems to have unified the Republican party.

You write near the end of the book about Trump that «if he ever succeeds at directing federal courts and law enforcement at his enemies... then the blending of the autocratic and democratic worlds will be complete».

It doesn't seem like you're super optimistic about what might happen next.

What worries me honestly about Donald Trump is the affinity that he has shown for the dictators that I'm writing about. It's not like it's a secret or you have to look at classified documents.

He talks openly about it, his admiration for Xi Jinping, his admiration for Putin, his admiration even for the North Korean dictator who's destroyed his country.

It's a poor, sad, repressed country in contrast to vibrant, successful South Korea. Yet, Trump admires him because he's brutal and because he stays in power for a long time, I guess. 

The second piece of it is that I worry about Trump’s transactional instincts, particularly in a second term, if he were to win. Trump is not interested in an alliance of democracies or a community of values or America playing a role in supporting the stability and viability of democracy around the world.

He's mostly interested in himself. He's interested in his own money. He's interested in his own perceptions of him. He's interested in his own political stability and right now, he's interested in staying out of jail.

Kim Jong Un (in the middle on the right) and Donald Trump (in the middle on the left) walking to a meeting on the southern side of Korean DMZ on June 30th 2019. Photo: Brendan Smialowski/AFP/East News

I would be afraid of that in a second term, when he feels much less constrained, that his interests in his own finances and his children's finances would be one of the prime drivers of his foreign policy. In that sense, he would already be like one of the dictators that I've written about.

He could also, you know, he might also be looking to do deals that benefit business people around him.

And I don't know what joining Autocracy Inc would look like. It's not that there would be some pact between America and Russia or America and China, or maybe there would be, but it’s not necessary at all. It's simply that we would begin to behave like those dictatorships.

And our leaders would begin to behave like the leaders of those dictatorships and we're not that far away from it. So it's not difficult to imagine at all.

Just to wrap up this conversation, you dedicated this book to «the optimists», and I have to admit that I'm having a hard time identifying in that camp right now. And so I'm trying to understand, you know, how do we fix the trajectory of the world that you've identified here? Is it fixable? How do we turn away from, you know, a sort of nothing matters worldview towards something more hopeful and more democratic?

I think the short answer involves a lot of people. Everyone. You, me, everyone reading to think about how they can be engaged in whatever country they live in. 

How do you engage in your democracy? How do you play some kind of role? How do you support and insist on supporting the rights that we're all guaranteed in our constitutions? How do you convince others of why that's important?

It's very important to vote. It's very important to participate in the electoral process in other ways. And that's the best advice I can give ordinary people.

I have a whole laundry list in the book of things that governments could do, and they start with the elimination of the institutions that enable kleptocracy in our own societies. That seems to be the easiest and first thing that we can do. 

But I think ordinary people can also, through their own participation, make a difference.

The original interview titled «Are We in Cold War 2.0?» appeared on the Counteroffensive.news website.

The book will be released in Polish on September 12 by the 'Agora' publishing house.

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