Війна — це іноді шанс уникнути насильства

At the beginning of the 20th century, the newly established Ukrainian People's Republic needed brave and intelligent representatives worldwide to prove its capability as an international player, achieve recognition of the UPR as an independent state, tell the truth about Ukrainians' struggle against the Bolsheviks, and counter the fabrications of Russian propaganda.

- It needed not only male representatives but also female representatives, - says the Head of the Scientific Society of the History of Diplomacy and International Relations, Doctor of Historical Sciences, Professor Iryna Matiash. - Researching the history of Ukrainian diplomacy, I have often found that women were notable in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs or foreign missions.

«In 1917-1919, foreign missions of more than thirty countries operated in Ukrainian cities»

Olha Pakosh: You presented two of your scientific works in Krakow - «The Female Face of Ukrainian Diplomacy. Essays. Memoirs. Interviews» and «Shared Places of Memory of Ukraine and Poland. Official and Cultural Diplomacy». How did your interest in women in diplomacy begin?

Iryna Matiash: This interest arose because I have been researching the history of the diplomatic and consular service for a long time. Furthermore, I have the honour of heading the Scientific Society of the History of Diplomacy and International Relations. From 2017 (the year of 100th anniversary of the Ukrainian diplomatic service) to 2021, under the patronage of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine, we implemented the scientific and educational project «A Century of Ukrainian Diplomacy», organised youth meetings «European Values and Cultural Diplomacy» with the support of the Hanns Seidel Foundation in Ukraine, and launched, shortly before the full-scale invasion, the project «Ukraine - the World: 30 (104)».

However, the study of the history of Ukrainian diplomacy began even earlier when I was the Director of the Ukrainian Research Institute of Archival Affairs and Records Management.

In preparation for the 90th anniversary of the Ukrainian diplomatic service, we organised an exhibition of archival documents and showed foreign ambassadors in Kyiv the originals, which confirmed the presence of their countries' diplomatic representatives in Kyiv in 1918-1919. Since then, this topic has never left me.

Not everyone knew that the Ukrainian People's Republic and the Ukrainian State of Hetman Pavlo Skoropadskyi had official contacts with many countries and that during 1917-1919, foreign missions of more than thirty countries operated in Ukrainian cities.

Ukraine also sent its embassies and extraordinary diplomatic missions to various countries. The first UPR missions were sent to the signatory countries of the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk during the Central Rada period. Under the Hetmanate, embassies were established in Germany, Austria-Hungary, Turkey and Bulgaria, as well as in Switzerland and Finland, missions appeared in Romania and the Scandinavian states, and representatives were appointed to the Kuban government and the Government of the Don Cossacks.

The largest number of diplomatic missions was sent by the Directorate of the UPR

Between December 1918 and January 1919, diplomatic missions were sent to Belgium, the United Kingdom, Greece, Denmark, Estonia, Italy, Latvia, Poland, Romania, the Holy See, the USA, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Sweden, Switzerland and the Caucasus to convey the truth about Ukraine and its struggle for independence to the international community.

The delegation to Paris was tasked with securing recognition of the UPR's independence by the participating states of the Paris Peace Conference, the withdrawal of foreign troops from Ukrainian territory and assistance in the fight against the Bolsheviks. To support this mission, the Ukrainian Republican Capella, led by Oleksandr Koshyts, was sent on a musical mission.

The diplomatic struggle for recognition of Ukraine's independence by European countries continued until 1926

This struggle lasted until the end of the final extraordinary diplomatic mission of the UPR in Hungary in 1924 and the formal closure of the UPR Embassy in Switzerland in 1926.

Meanwhile, Russians consistently tried to portray that Ukraine lacked diplomacy at that time and had no international contacts. By doing so, Russian scholars attempted to deny Ukraine’s statehood, as they did with other nations that were unfortunate enough to be part of the Soviet Union.

Our project «A Century of Ukrainian Diplomacy» aimed to honour Ukrainian diplomats of the Ukrainian Revolution of 1917-1921, conduct scientific and educational activities and refute Russian theses about the inability of the Ukrainian diplomatic service to function as a state institution.

In the second project, «Ukraine - The World 30 (104): Official and Cultural Diplomacy», we sought to demonstrate that Ukrainian diplomacy did not emerge after the restoration of Ukraine’s state independence but rather a century ago. It was crucial for us to preserve this historical connection and nurture institutional memory. We recorded interviews with the first ambassadors of independent Ukraine in the early 1990s, who deposited these interviews for preservation at the Central State Archive of Audiovisual and Electronic Documents.

Researching thousands of pages of archival documents for documentary exhibitions and monographs, I always subconsciously searched for women's names. I tried to answer questions such as: who was the first woman in the Ukrainian diplomatic service? Were women allowed into leadership positions? What challenges did diplomats' wives face? How did their lives turn out? This led to the idea of highlighting the role of women in diplomacy through the figures of career diplomats and diplomats' wives, as wives are also a formidable force in diplomacy. Thus, the project «The Female Face of Ukrainian Diplomacy» was born.

Repressions against Ukrainian female diplomats

- Did this inspire you to focus on the figures of women?

- Rather, it encouraged archival searches, as information about women working in diplomatic positions is quite scattered, and memoirs often contain inaccuracies and subjective assessments.

Speaking of the beginnings of Ukrainian diplomacy, it is worth mentioning the establishment of the General Secretariat of International Affairs on December 22nd 1917. It was primarily staffed by young men, with the average age of senior officials around 30. For example, Oleksandr Shulhyn was 28 when he was appointed as the first Minister of Foreign Affairs.

The first woman to hold a leadership position in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs was Nadiia Surovtsova. She entered the diplomatic service by chance but became not only the first woman to head a structural unit of the ministry but also the first spokesperson of the MFA. She began using tools that are now well-established in public diplomacy: organising an exhibition of Ukrainian embroidery and a library of Ukrainian books for the diplomatic mission at the Paris Peace Conference. Later, she used charity concerts and Ukrainian fashion shows to raise funds to support the starving in Ukraine.

By the way, in Poland, a similar position was held by Kazimiera Iłłakowiczówna, a prominent writer, poet, translator, diplomat and personal secretary to Marshal Józef Piłsudski.

As for inspiration - that would be Kateryna Hrushevska. She was the daughter of the prominent historian and head of the Ukrainian Central Rada, Mykhailo Hrushevsky, a researcher of Ukrainian folk ballads and the mythology of the world's peoples, the youngest member of the Taras Shevchenko Scientific Society in Lviv, editor of the journal «Primitive Society», an ethnologist and a victim of the repressive Soviet regime. Kateryna became one of my main heroines, prompting me to pay special attention to the figures of women in diplomacy.

Incidentally, in her mother Maria Hrushevska’s activities as the wife of the head of state (Mykhailo Hrushevsky was the head of parliament, the position of president did not exist then), one can observe the emergence of elements of public diplomacy of the first lady. According to contemporaries, Maria Hrushevska tried to correspond to her status, including in her clothing style. She followed fashion and had an appropriate wardrobe with outfits for «evening», «visiting», «strolling» and «folk» styles for participating in various cultural and social events, gatherings and business meetings. The use of vyshyvankas for public events to promote national dress can be considered an element of fashion diplomacy.

- Returning to Nadiia Surovtsova, what specifically caught your attention in her story?

- Her story is full of unexpected twists of fate. In January 1919, Nadiia Surovtsova was sent to Paris as secretary of the information bureau of the UPR delegation to participate in the Peace Conference. The plan included creating a Ukrainian library or at least a shelf of Ukrainian books. The delegation also included Dmytro Dontsov, head of the Ukrainian Telegraph Agency and Oleksandr Shulhyn, the first Minister of Foreign Affairs of the UPR.

However, most members of the delegation did not manage to reach Paris.

Returning to Kyiv was also impossible because, in early February 1919, the Bolsheviks captured the city. Many Ukrainian diplomats remained abroad. Nadiia moved to Vienna. Fluent in French and German, she initially studied at the University of Vienna and defended her dissertation on Bohdan Khmelnytsky and the Ukrainian state idea.

Soon, a diplomatic mission of Soviet Ukraine, headed by Yurii Kotsiubynsky, was established in Vienna. Among the tasks of such missions was countering the diplomatic activities of the UPR missions, which were still active in some countries. Trusting Kotsiubynsky, Surovtsova began collaborating with Soviet diplomats, participated in various events they organised and started changing her beliefs, taking an interest in the communist movement. In the spring of 1925, Nadiia returned to Kharkiv, full of hope, but she was soon repressed and exiled to Stalin’s labour camps. In exile, she realised how tragically she had been mistaken and the true evil of Soviet propaganda. She had to endure the full horrors of the GULAG.

After her release and rehabilitation, Nadiia Surovtsova returned to Uman, engaged in community activities and wrote literary works and memoirs. In her diaries, which she began writing in exile, she rethought her experiences, candidly described her mistakes and tried to erase that time from her life. Nevertheless, her diplomatic service remained the brightest part of her life.

- How did you collect materials for this research?

- That is precisely why I began discussing Nadiia Surovtsova. While reading her memoirs, I noticed certain details or inaccuracies that could only be verified through archival documents. These are scattered across various archives. The main body of archival documents related to diplomatic history, including information about Nadiia Surovtsova, is held in the Central State Archive of Supreme Authorities and Government of Ukraine. Here, one can find collections of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the UPR, diplomatic missions, foreign diplomatic representations and consulates, diplomats’ personal documents and diplomatic passports.

Extremely significant for such research are also the documents of Ukrainian emigrant organisations and figures, particularly those from the so-called Prague Archive, part of which is also preserved in the Central State Archive of Public Associations and Ukrainica. This unique collection of documents was declassified in the 1990s. A separate collection dedicated to Nadiia Surovtsova is stored in the Central State Archive-Museum of Literature and Art of Ukraine. Thus, her diplomatic career was reconstructed «drop by drop».

- I can imagine the meticulous work of reviewing hundreds of documents in search of one that might summarise everything previously found or, conversely, change the narrative entirely. What discovery impressed you the most?

- It should be noted that most female diplomats of the Ukrainian Revolution of 1917-1921 were forced into exile or repressed. Therefore, in addition to Ukrainian archives, it is necessary to explore foreign archives.

Also deserving attention are the cases of repressed individuals held in the Sectoral State Archive of the Security Service of Ukraine, and partially in the Central State Archive of Public Associations and Ukrainica. Archival research is a true detective story. It is captivating! I have always encouraged my students to approach research from this perspective. Search, assemble the pieces and build logical connections. This is how the necessary data can be uncovered.

One noteworthy discovery was Kateryna Hrushevska’s diary, found in the Central State Historical Archive in Kyiv within the Hrushevsky family collection. It had not been identified as Kateryna’s diary but was bound together with Maria Hrushevska’s diary. The manuscript contains valuable descriptions of their stay in Switzerland. I published this text in the Ukrainian Historical Journal.

Among the finds in foreign archives, my favourite is «The Diplomatic History of Ukraine» by Yevhen Slabchenko (Eugène Deslaw). Thanks to the «Klio» publishing house and the «Ukrainian Book» programme, this manuscript, discovered in Winnipeg, was published in Ukraine.

Another striking find was diplomatic passports. When you least expect to find a photo of the person you are researching and stumble upon an official document...

- Whose?

- It was incredibly significant for me to find Maria Bachynska’s passport. It is also preserved in the Central State Archive of Supreme Authorities and Government of Ukraine. A delicate, refined woman with a steel character, convictions and values. However, in the diplomatic passport photo, she appears rather informal.

‍- Maria Bachynska - she was Dmytro Dontsov’s wife, correct?

- Yes. By the way, Maria Dontsova (Bachynska) was both a woman holding a diplomatic position and the wife of a diplomatic mission staff member. Dmytro Dontsov headed the Information Bureau of the UPR Embassy in Switzerland for some time, while Maria worked as a staff member of the UPR diplomatic mission in Denmark. She was fluent in several foreign languages, which was an exceptional advantage when selecting candidates for diplomatic missions. Unfortunately, we have not yet located Maria Dontsova’s grave in New Jersey. I hope we will find it someday.

Contemporary stars and key qualities of Ukrainian diplomacy

- In modern Ukraine, female diplomats are fortunately no longer a rarity. Whom would you highlight?

- In the early 1990s, female diplomats were still a great rarity. But this was not only the case in Ukraine, it was a global trend. For instance, Nina Kovalska, Tetyana Izhevska and Natalia Zarudna recall that at the beginning of the 1990s, there were only three or four women in diplomatic positions, and the idea of a woman becoming an ambassador was entirely unrealistic.

- Who was the first female ambassador in independent Ukraine?

- After regaining independence, Nina Kovalska became the first woman appointed as an ambassador, and Natalia Zarudna became the first woman in the leadership of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine, serving as Deputy State Secretary of the Ministry.

In February 1998, Nina Kovalska was appointed to Switzerland and Liechtenstein, and in July, to the Holy See (Vatican) - initially concurrently, and in 2000 as a resident ambassador.

This was an unprecedented case not only in the history of relations between Ukraine and the Holy See but also in the history of Ukrainian diplomacy as a whole, as it was the first time a woman was appointed as an ambassador to such a specific place

The embassy consisted only of her and a driver, and the entire mission operated from a single room - an incredibly modest setup. Overall, I believe that our women in diplomatic positions are people with «thirty hands and thirty heads» in the best sense: they know and can do everything. Nina Kovalska exemplified this vividly: she gave interviews, hosted students, organised the first Ukrainian-Italian conference, and made maximum efforts to prepare for Pope John Paul II's visit to Ukraine despite Russian opposition. Her work was recognised both by Ukraine and the Holy See, earning her distinctions. Nina Kovalska left the Vatican at the end of her tenure with the Grand Cross of the Order of Pius IX.

After her, another extraordinary woman, Tetyana Izhevska, was appointed ambassador to the Holy See and the first ambassador of Ukraine to the Sovereign Military Order of Malta. She served there for almost 13 years. It was Tetyana Izhevska who was called a star of diplomacy by her Polish colleague.

- Has the presence of women in diplomatic service and missions influenced the quality of diplomatic service and negotiation processes?

- This seems to be a stereotype. We have debated this topic extensively, which is why we consciously chose the term «women in diplomacy» rather than «women’s diplomacy». In our concept, the notion of «women in diplomacy» encompasses career diplomats, diplomats’ wives and leaders in the field of public diplomacy. Most successful women in ambassadorial roles respond to this question in the same way: there is no such thing as «women’s» or «men’s» diplomacy - only professionalism and a calling. To be effective in diplomacy, one must always remember the well-known three keys to diplomacy of Hennadiy Udovenko: the first is professionalism, followed by patriotism and integrity.

These qualities are not dependent on gender but on the level of education, the ability to apply knowledge in practice and self-control. Psychological resilience, language skills, negotiation ability and other factors also play a crucial role. Female diplomats emphasise that a woman’s smile is not a key argument in negotiations. The defining factor is professionalism.

«Women's Territory» is a nationwide organisation that has united women worldwide. Over nearly 11 years of existence, they have implemented dozens of projects, including cultural ones. The head of the organisation, Liliia Shevchenko, believes that a person who knows their roots automatically understands who they are and what they must do to preserve their country. The full-scale war has altered the organisation's operations. They have already delivered over five hundred tonnes of humanitarian aid to military personnel and civilians. They support families of prisoners of war and help women who have experienced violence. Moreover, they are expanding their presence in Europe.

Nataliia Zhukovska: Ms Liliia, you are the head of the «Women's Territory» organisation. What is this territory like?

Liliia Shevchenko: Our nationwide public organisation «Women's Territory» was founded by ideologically driven women who live and breathe Ukraine. This is not an empty phrase but the pure truth. «Women's Territory» is neither defined nor limited by borders. It is not only the territory of those residing in Ukraine but also the territory of women worldwide, especially now, when millions of Ukrainian women, fleeing war, have found temporary refuge in many European countries. We want to help them systematically. So, we decided that «Women's Territory» would now operate under the umbrella of the host country and its laws. Currently, work on the documents for «Women's Territory» in Poland is nearing completion. We have held talks with representatives from the Polish Ministry of Social Policy and with relocated Ukrainian businesses and Polish businesses. How will they help Ukrainian women in Poland? Primarily by organising Sunday schools. This is important so that children while learning about the culture of their host country, do not forget their Ukrainian heritage. Given that Ukraine is in a full-scale war and most funds from businesses and ministries are allocated to military needs, there is insufficient funding from the Ministry of Education for books and educational materials for children abroad. One of the tasks of «Women's Territory» is not only to establish Sunday schools but also to print books. We have already held talks with the «Gutenberg» publishing house. We will distribute books for free, starting with our Sunday schools.

We already have a developed base, so organising work in Poland will not be difficult. One of our members opened the first art school in Warsaw at the end of 2022 and has already received small grants from the local Polish authorities. The school offers free art classes to both Ukrainian and Polish children.

One of the messages of «Women's Territory» is that we not only take from the countries that shelter us but also give to them

We have provided Europe with qualified specialists. Due to the war in Ukraine, many educators, medical professionals and managers moved to the EU. Many of them have already had their diplomas recognised. For instance, our member, who led «Women's Territory» in Dnipro, now lives in Gdansk, has confirmed her qualifications, and is a qualified lawyer. Her mother also verified her diploma and works as a dentist. So, we offer our knowledge and services to the Polish people as well. We want the Poles to understand that they do not only give but also receive. This will also be one of the tasks of «Women's Territory» in Poland.

We will also focus on women's leadership and gender issues. A woman must understand her status and significance in society.

How has the organisation's work changed since the start of the full-scale war?

«Women's Territory» shifted 90 per cent towards volunteer activities. In Poland, for example, we partnered with several Polish foundations that had a 400-square-metre volunteer warehouse in Warsaw. We are grateful to the Poles for covering its rental costs for an extended period. It was packed to the ceiling with humanitarian aid, ranging from clothing and food to expensive medical supplies, which we distributed to Ukrainian hospitals. For example, we had diffuser devices, each costing around 2500 euros, with over a thousand in stock. We equipped hospitals with beds, X-ray machines, and vitamins. Both Ukrainians and Poles worked at the warehouse. We dispatched trucks loaded with aid based on recipients' requests and provided support to relocated family-type children's homes and care facilities for the elderly. We received tourniquets and body armour and raised funds for drones. We did not merely adapt to new challenges - we also helped others adapt to them.

Who are the members of your organisation?

There are around two thousand of us. There are women, heads of departments, who have their own public organisations and foundations. For example, our member is Iryna Mikhniuk - a widow, the wife of a fallen Hero of Ukraine. Since 2014, she has headed the organisation «Wings of the Eighth Hundred» - it consists of widows, wives of the fallen, and children. In Ukraine, there are already 19 officially registered branches of ours. The team includes women from various professions and financial backgrounds, but with a shared ideological mindset and vision. There are also military personnel, such as Viktoria Khrystenko, who was the first adviser to the Admiral of the Ukrainian Navy.

In my team, there is a board member of «Women's Territory» from Donetsk, Alina Khaletska, who was forced to flee her native city. Her family had a unique background. Her husband worked for the Donetsk administration, and she herself is a lecturer, professor and academician. They left everything behind when they fled. Upon arriving in Irpin, they worked hard to save money and eventually started purchasing a flat. Sadly, during the full-scale war, it was destroyed by an enemy shell. They endured the occupation in Irpin. In other words, they have lived through occupation twice in their lifetime. This woman was offered work abroad. Where do you think she is? In Irpin. She does not wish to leave Ukraine.

What problems do women approach you with?

Many women joined us when we became part of the coalition «Women, Peace, Security». These are activists fighting for women's leadership and supporting victims of violence. In Ukraine, this remains a major issue, especially in places like Bucha and Irpin. You are likely familiar with some of these stories. There is much I know but cannot share publicly. Our agreement is to not speak of experiences unless we were participants. I am a witness. These are stories lived by women, girls, or children. They share their stories themselves if they wish to. All stories are heavy. How do we support them? I always advocate for mutual assistance and supporting one another. It is crucial to speak with them very carefully, as every word can be traumatising.

We help them regain their footing, providing a sense of sisterhood and the reassurance that they are not alone - that we stand together

We stress that anyone could find themselves in a similar situation. Our message is one of solidarity. Sometimes, we involve these women in processes by seeking their help to show them they are needed. Engagement, even minimal, can serve as a distraction and relief. We have no formal programme for this, our approach has been refined over many years.

Additionally, through a memorandum of cooperation with municipal employment centres, we assist women in retraining and finding jobs. We collaborate closely with the Ministry of Veterans. Many of the women in «Women's Territory» are defenders who were once civilians. We were the first to help sew military uniforms and undergarments for women. We also sourced anatomical body armour specifically designed for them.

What has the organisation accomplished during its existence?

Our lives are now divided into «before» and «after» the full-scale war. Prior to it, we had a powerful project that united Ukrainian children living abroad. We also established the International Festival of Cultural and Creative Industries, known as «Women's Territory», which we later renamed «Masters' Territory». If not for the full-scale war, this festival would have received funding from the Ministry of Culture and Information Policy. It was a platform that elevated Ukrainian crafts, demonstrating that Ukrainian products are not merely sold at fairs and markets, but even in five-star hotels. For now, this project has been put on hold. Today, we focus on uniting Ukrainian women abroad.

We strive to ensure that Ukraine is not forgotten. Our initial focus is on registering «Women's Territory» in Poland and France. Next, we plan for Belgium, Switzerland, Germany and Spain

We have provided female defenders with over 1200 boxes containing first-aid kits, vitamins, special olive-based creams to prevent skin cracking and even perfumes.

Every woman should feel like a woman, no matter where she is. We even provided hair dye tailored to their colour types. Once, I asked the women to take photos for a media campaign to raise funds for these boxes. They sent back pictures - clean, with hairstyles and manicures. It turned out they had travelled to a district centre and, using their own money, found skilled manicure artists and hairdressers. They told me, «Lilia, when we opened these boxes, we felt like we were at home». You see, they received a psychological breath of happiness.

Your organisation has helped women with children evacuate from dangerous areas to avoid occupation. How did this happen, and how many people have you assisted?

We do not have exact numbers on how many people we have helped. We evacuated people from Melitopol, Berdyansk, Kherson, Donetsk region, and the left, already occupied, bank of the Zaporizhzhia region. Of course, we were assisted by the military. I am unsure if I am allowed to disclose the details of every rescue story. I will share one - the story of a mother with two children who were leaving Melitopol. At that time, her daughter was 15, and her son was three years old. Their father was in the Armed Forces of Ukraine. If the Russians had found this out, they would have been executed. She instructed her children to remain silent and, if necessary, to respond only in Russian. On their way, Russian soldiers armed with weapons boarded the bus to conduct checks. Approaching them, the muzzle of a rifle hanging on one soldier's shoulder accidentally pressed against the child's head. The boy was so terrified that he wets himself to this day. They were interrogated, their phone SIM cards were examined, and the family endured multiple rounds of hell. It later turned out they were fortunate that the child was not undressed. Only later did the mother notice a hidden sheet of A4 paper on her son's chest. On it was a drawing of his father in military uniform, with a flag and the words «Glory to Ukraine!». The boy had placed that drawing there himself. To him, it represented Ukraine, his life. If the Russians had seen that drawing, they would have been executed. We have many such stories.

Do you keep in touch with the families you have assisted?

Someday, I will revisit those lists. But for now, our priority is to officially establish «Women's Territory» in Europe and America. We are resilient, genuine, and active. We are women accustomed to giving, not taking. Perhaps in time, I will become more interested in the fates of those we have helped. However, I often question whether reaching out would be beneficial or if it might unintentionally bring harm.

You travel abroad frequently. What do you talk about there, how do foreigners react, and what interests them most?

I talk about the solidarity and resilience of the Ukrainian people. I share the harsh realities of war we face, the immense challenges, and our efforts to overcome them. My message is always framed to emphasise the need for support in these efforts. I say, «We are taking action, not standing by. Help us in this war in any way you can - through expertise, humanitarian aid, or military support». We consistently highlight the need to support the Ukrainian army, and I know our message is being heard.

«Women's Territory» supports prisoners of war and continuously participates in various campaigns. Do you believe these efforts contribute to exchanges?

Absolutely. We have been supporting the families of prisoners of war since the start of the war in 2014. We organise events with the mothers, wives, and children of captured marines. Do you remember those taken prisoner in Crimea at the beginning of the war? We brought the mother and daughter of one of the marines to the UN so that their speech could raise awareness and tell the truth about the war in Ukraine. Any information campaign must be planned and ongoing. Such initiatives not only ensure that the world does not forget those in captivity but also help the relatives of prisoners of war feel they are not alone, preventing them from being lost in their grief. Tragedy unites. We have many poignant stories related to the return of prisoners of war. Recently, there was a soldier on the list who had been eagerly awaited by everyone. They thought he had come back. However, it turned out it was not him. The surname was the same, but the first name was different.

You also conduct training sessions for government institutions on communication with veterans and their families. What are the key principles you focus on?

I will illustrate with the example of the Kyiv City Employment Centre. Engaging with a military veteran, a defender or a servicewoman, requires a particular approach. For instance, we - as empaths - often feel the urge to approach a soldier on the street and say, «Thank you for your service. Glory to Ukraine». We might want to hug them and say, «You are a hero!». Yet, almost none of this should be said or done. These are triggers. If you call them heroes, they often do not perceive themselves that way. This is why we educate not only employees of state institutions but also the civilian population. The most important thing is teaching how to understand and engage with these individuals. For example, when they come to the Kyiv City Employment Centre, the manager who interacts with them must be highly qualified and aware that every soldier might experience flashbacks. We train them to pay attention to facial expressions, eyes, and behaviour. Employees of such institutions must be prepared for any possible scenario because almost all soldiers have experienced concussions. Furthermore, there must be barrier-free access and inclusivity.

Veterans must be actively involved in rebuilding Ukraine after the war, not left idle at home

Sociologists warn of a crisis facing the country after the war, particularly a demographic one. Do you think Ukrainian women will return from Europe after the victory? What steps are needed to ensure this?

I am unsure if I can speak openly about this, but yes, we are facing a demographic crisis. A baby boom will not be enough to solve this. We are exploring solutions because it concerns our future. Will women return from abroad? The longer the full-scale war continues, the less likely it becomes. Many divorces are happening now. Numerous women have adapted to their children's needs, and most of these children are assimilating into the societies where they now live. We have already encountered such cases among my members. They lived abroad. The daughter wanted to return, but the son did not. He had adapted, made friends, and was better accepted in his class than he had been at home. He likes the new country.

We must understand that parents' decisions will be influenced by their children. Therefore, we need to prioritise working with children abroad

Moreover, many women abroad have managed to realise themselves better or earn more than they did at home. For example, she was a nurse in a hospital in western Ukraine, and now she works as a nurse in Wroclaw. In Poland, she earns significantly more. Our officials must listen to society and start developing a programme to bring Ukrainian women home today. «Women's Territory» will undoubtedly contribute to this effort, primarily with its experience and resources. After all, we live in this country - to defend, revive, and provide it with a future. Fortunately, the majority of «Women's Territory» members abroad understand this.